Falling into Dive Boat

[mikerault]

Here is my feelings on this:

http://www.authorsden.com/ArticlesUpload/25475.pdf

Mike

 

[Peter Guy]

Mike wrote

You have to take responsibility for whatever you do. You are responsible for
your life, your learning and your safety, no one else.

Let's just say we all agree with you on this. BUT (and of course there is a "but") do you not agree that ALL parties have the same rules? You, and most of the others who have responded, seem to put ALL of the responsibility on the injured person -- as if the operator has no responsibility whatsoever. But do you, and all the rest, not agree the operator also has a responsibility to create a safe environment?

The basic problem I have with most of the responses is that they are almost a "blame the injured party" mindset. "By god, if she hadn't said that to me I wouldn't have hit her -- it's all HER fault for making me mad."

"Responsibility" (or "liability" if you want to use that word) is a two-way street. The person who is injured has a "responsibility" to act reasonably under the circumstances -- the person who DOES the injury (in this case the boat operator) also has a "responsibility" to make sure what it does is as safe as is reasonable under the circumstances.

Now you all may think what the OP did was unreasonable -- fine. But that doesn't absolve the boat operator from doing what IS reasonable as its "responsibility" for ensuring a safe environment.

Or do you all disagree?

 

[ScubaSteve]

What makes anybody think that the dive boat operator did NOT act responsibly? We have heard from only one party to the instance here, and nothing has really been said by the OP that made me think that the Dive OP was negligent. Perhaps I am not putting a lot of faith in what this poster says, but I do know that there is three versions of the story...his, theirs and the truth. This almost always the case and I therefore say that the truth likely lies somewhere outside of what has been spoken here.

JMO

 

[Jim Lapenta]

We really do not know what the operator was doing. I do not recall a specific location or op mentioned. We don't even have a chance to invite the operator to post their side if any. There is again no mention of anyone else getting hurt and they did choose a different site to offload. I'm thinking that they did evaluate conditions and decide that things had deteriorated enough to warrant a change. That to me shows they did take things into consideration and acted responsibly. We've heard nothing from anyone else who witnessed the situation or was a passenger on this boat. And again it all comes down to who is responsible for deciding to go out? One person and one person alone- the diver.

 

[pollywogg]

Very well said, Jim.
Maybe you should copy Divenxs' PM to you so that everyone can get an idea of what a level-headed, clear-thinking individual the OP obviously is. Honestly, that threat was one of the funniest things I've read in a while. At the end of the day, noone is forcing you to dive. We do it for fun( and sometimes a li'l chunk o' money). So if you're a rec diver on a trip, and it looks like it would be uncomfortable for you, it's probably no longer fun, cut the dive. There's absolutely nothing wrong with scrubbing a dive because it looks too nasty out. Now, with that being said, when you find 'too nasty to dive', let me know

 

[vladimir]

Let's just say we all agree with you on this. BUT (and of course there is a "but") do you not agree that ALL parties have the same rules? You, and most of the others who have responded, seem to put ALL of the responsibility on the injured person -- as if the operator has no responsibility whatsoever. But do you, and all the rest, not agree the operator also has a responsibility to create a safe environment?

The basic problem I have with most of the responses is that they are almost a "blame the injured party" mindset. "By god, if she hadn't said that to me I wouldn't have hit her -- it's all HER fault for making me mad."

"Responsibility" (or "liability" if you want to use that word) is a two-way street. The person who is injured has a "responsibility" to act reasonably under the circumstances -- the person who DOES the injury (in this case the boat operator) also has a "responsibility" to make sure what it does is as safe as is reasonable under the circumstances.

Now you all may think what the OP did was unreasonable -- fine. But that doesn't absolve the boat operator from doing what IS reasonable as its "responsibility" for ensuring a safe environment.

Or do you all disagree?

I appreciate your legal perspective on this, Peter, and commend you for standing up against the deluge of knee-jerk responses, mine included. I think we would mostly agree that the boat operator has some responsibilities, but I don't believe that any are relevant to this accident. (Based on what we know, which, as JimLap points out, is very little.) We all expect the boat operator to safely captain his boat to and from the dive site and to avoid running over the divers on live-boat dives, for example. But I don't really expect a briefing on how to board a boat every time I board a boat--that's a little insulting, isn't it? Do they need to brief me on how to re-board the boat using the dive ladder, for example? (Actually, I've heard that briefing quite a few times.) Can they rely somewhat on my certification as proof that I have a clue (assuming I have a "boat diver" endorsement, of course )?

I think the boat operator was as safe as could be reasonably expected, under the circumstances, the circumstances being rough seas. I am afraid the standard of care you expect might preclude him going out in weather that the majority of his divers might be perfectly safe in, because some clumsy divers may have also booked the trip.

 

[Peter Guy]

vlad -- Thank you for your response. Of course we have no idea if anyone violated any reasonable resposibilities here -- ***** does happen which is why we should have accident insurance.

I was merely responding to the knee-jerk "It is YOUR responsibility" posts. IF the facts really are as originally stated, I agree with everyone else -- that is, the OP screwed up and got injured and the primary responsibility was the OP's and not the operator. BUT, that doesn't mean that just BECAUSE one chooses to do something and gets injured, it is ALWAYS the responsibility of the victim for doing the activity.

 

[dpaustex]

you probably signed a waiver. You probably could have received assistance in boarding. There is no loss of "macho" (machess??) in asking for help. Diving is gear intensive, and lots of injuries happen on boats. People refuse to hang on to stuff (always befuddles me how people think they should walk on a slick deck, in slick booties, without holding on to something).

It sounds like an accident. Diving is an "assumed risk" sport. I wasn't there, and don't know if your situation was obvious and/or preventable. Sorry for the injury, but do you think something else should have been done under the circumstances?

 

[captain]

God, I love divers. We must be the last group of people in the U.S. with any common sense.

I wouldn't go so far as to agree judging by some of what I read here.

 

[captain]

So to get back on track and try to find something constructive for the future readers of this thread.

As someone who has been handling boats for about 25 years now, my first decision when I bring a boat in to the dock is: Can I do this without mashing the boat up? If the answer is 'no' I don't bring the boat in. If I can get the boat on the dock there is a good chance that the majority of people can get on board without incident and assistance and advice are offered if required. Now if it all goes awry the customer has signed a waiver, I'm insured, the company is insured and we will go to court if we have to, I haven't had to yet.

However, the injured party needs to ask themself what they really want out of the whole thing. If they were insured and received compensation for any injury they are back at square one. If they want a refund for missed dives, for sympathetic reasons they'll probably get it. If they want to be compensated for injured pride, I hope the court will throw it out. The shop is not going to refund everything and pay for bills because that could be construed as an admission of guilt.

Boats up against a dock do tend to move in a predictable way. You can see waves coming and know what is going to happen when they reach you. If you lack experience in making the right decision you have an obligation to inform those around you who will assist you in deciding whether to proceed or not. Peer pressure should not come into the equation. The boat is the most dangerous piece of equipment involved in diving, it is big and heavy, has sharp moving bits, bounces up and down and doesn't have brakes. And, if there is a rule number one it is, DO NOT PUT ONE FOOT ON THE BOAT AND KEEP THE OTHER ON THE DOCK!

There is a old rule of the sea, "One hand for the man one hand for the boat"