Failure rate

[MNawman]

I am planning to go to Fla this Fall for my Cave Cert. I am getting my equipment put together and practicing with it. I was wondering what the typical failure rates for these classes are. What are the most common skills that are tripping people up. I realize that I will learn new techniques there and don't want to have to un-learn something. But I do want to be as prepared as I can possibly be. Thanks for any input.

 

[GDI]

There are several resons that can cause a diver to fail to become trained as a cave diver. AND there are several factors that cave instructors look at before determining if a student is suitable to be a cave diver.

Basic skills are important these trip most people up. Buoyancy and the ability to mutli task while maintaining it, finning technique, ability to work in little to no liight, comfort in the water. People come to cave classes thinking that it is just like any other form of diver training. This is not a good mind set to have. Your attitude can fail you in itself. Also consider:
Environmental awareness
Equipment management, set up and care
Equipment familiarization
Responses to emergency scenarios

Your ability to THINK in a logical manner and to provide reasons as to why you have done something one way and not another will be a big issue. Good Luck

 

[Mr.X]

Learning is a very individual pursuit. With the case of cave diving prior preparation (as you are doing) is quite important. Hence, the scaffolding hierarchy in training leading to full cave. Cavern first, a period of acclimation and somewhere later down the line full cave training. The instructor and his/her training methods may also play a factor. I have seen totally inept "cave" instructors - allowing students to do a head first entry into a shallow cenote wearing doubles!

Having a class like DIR fundamentals never hurts and getting some cavern in beforehand helps. Line experience helps. In my experience, those who do not qualify tend to opt out early to either work on basic cave related skills, or simply walk away.

 

[karstdvr]

You haven't revealed what your training level is. For example are you OW seeking cavern/intro, or cavern seeking intro etc. If you are already cavern,then practice the skills you've learned previously,and do it to the point you can multi-task. If this is your first experience such that you are taking cavern,then be comfortable in the water with good trim and bouyancy. I think you'll find that instructors don't want to fail you,but help you succeed;but passing is not guaranteed and remediation does occur. Out of curiosity what is your motivation for taking a cave class?

 

[MNawman]

Karstdvr, good point. I got certified (PADI) in 1986, have taken most of their specialties including Dive master, Nitrox, and cavern. I have over 600 logged dives around the world. As a Police officer I have logged several no-viz search and recovery dives and am very comfortable in the water. I have limited experience in doubles and am working on that now. I have purchased alum & ss bp's , wing, Apex regs, and converted alum 80's into doubles. I plan to get steels when the funds are available. I made a couple check-out dives two weeks ago and discovered that I need to get rid of or reduce the weight belt and move the weight to my tanks for proper trim. My wetsuit has shrunk to the point it is too restrictive and I am getting ready to order a drysuit. On my check-out dives, I worked on valve manipulation, switching regs, boyancy, trim, and propulsion techniques from my cavern class. As for my motivation, it was my cavern class. I took the class in Cozumel and thought the caves (caverns) were beautiful!!!! I also plan to get into more wreck diving/penetration which the cave classes would definately be an asset. I am at a point in diving where I want more training and challenge. Hope this info helps, Thanks for your input.

 

[Rick Murchison]

From what I've seen, I'd put it this way...
If a student has a mature cave diving mindset, that student will either complete the course successfully (most do) or decide to stop (or delay) at a point consistent with their skill on their own. If the student doesn't have a mature cave diving mindset they probably will reveal it and be stopped or delayed for their own good.
Rick

 

[scubafool]

I must say that my experience has been very consistent with Rick Murchison's observations. The thing that has impressed me the most about the cave training that I have taken to date is how well it has exposed my weaknesses. In all cases, the instructor has noted and commented on my deficiencies, but in all cases that was secondary to me realizing it on my own. It seems to me that the training is designed to do just exactly that, expose problems in the diver's skill set in a way that makes it painfully clear just what the problem is and how it might affect the diver's safety, the damage that the diver might do to the cave, and the negative affect that it might have on the diver's enjoyment of cave diving.

From my limited experience, skill, attitude, and ettiquette come together to make the cave diver, and a good cave class should include instruction in all three. Skill you cannot fake, the instructor WILL catch and correct it. Attitude can be faked, or time might change a good attitude into a bad one, and all the instructor can do is try to impress on you the importance of a good attitude. Ettiquite for the most part doesn't just come naturally, it must be taught. But the teaching doesn't do much good if the diver doesn't carry it forward into his diving after class.

It sounds as though you have a solid base from which to work. Look for the best instruction you can find, and don't worry about whether or not you pass. The card is just a piece of plastic, the skills and attitude you learn is what will keep you alive.

 

[Michael Schlink]

As far as skills that you can actually practice, what you need to be able to do is- while hovering in one spot, without any hand movement, do tasks-like - valve drills, deploy your backup light, handle a reel/spool, perform an OOA drill, etc, etc. All advice given has been excellent and an open mind will be your best friend. Most cave instructors will tell you the know it all OW instructor is rarely a good cave student. If you have good buoyancy and you can do things while you're hovering you'll do fine with your skill sets, have an open mind and TRUST your instructor, and do what he/she asks of you and you'll have a great time, learn alot, be humbled, and come away a much better diver.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

If you have good buoyancy and you can do things while you're hovering you'll do fine with your skill sets, have an open mind and TRUST your instructor, and do what he/she asks of you and you'll have a great time, learn alot, be humbled, and come away a much better diver.

I see quite a bit of good advice on these posts & from Michael. I would like to clarify one thing about trusting your instructor.

If you choose an experienced instructor you can trust him/her to do and tell you several things. Such as your gear configuration, the cave configuration you are about to dive in, the depth etc etc. You need to evaluate these things, and the dive plan as well to determine for yourself if they pass the common sense "sniff test".

If your instructor asks you to do something, whether it be a particular gear setup, or an exercise and you do not understand the reasoning behind it ask them "why" they are having you do it that way. Make sure you understand the rationale behind everything you do rather than just "trusting" him/her that its is correct.

Do not trust your instructor to show you the way out of the cave. You need to be able to get yourself out of the cave without your instructor or any other buddies with you. While I teach the team diving concept I also demand that you be independent at the same time. In the event your instructor is unable to exit the cave on his/her own volition you need to be able to do so.

Avoid "Trust Me" dives such as doing visual jumps from line to line. Even though the instructor may have been in the cave 100's of times and can exit to open water without a line, it may be your first time in. You MUST be able to exit independently.

When teaching a cave class I strive to help create a mindset of independence in the student so that he/she is not depending on me to get them out.

Divers I have had not pass the course have had problems with proper buoyancy control, some are unable to properly use swim techniques that avoid silt, some have been unable to control their emotions and breathing rates while others are just unable to handle all the gear required to perform a safe cave dive.

Others have not had the awareness required to make a safe cave dive. Awareness is critical. You must be able to stay focused on all the tasks at hand. You must always know where your buddy is, what your buoyancy is, where the line is, the direction to the nearest exit, and your gas pressure are but a few examples.

Cave diving, by its very nature will cause task loading -- often times task loading causes perceptual narrowing if the diver is having to struggle to perform all the tasks and then awareness goes "out the door". If I had a cave student who had all the skill sets down pat and had no, or limited awareness I would not hesitate to not certify them.

While preparing for cave training focus on dive skills and focus on being able to carry out several tasks at once, such as running a reel, maintaining buoyancy and trim, keeping track of your buddy and your location as referenced by an exit point, whether it be an anchor line or a particular point on shore.

I hope this too helps.

 

[Rick Murchison]

You MUST be able to exit independently.

In the dark. In the silt. With zero visibility. All the time... Capt. Jim has pretty much nailed the bottom line here.
Rick