Failed Hydro AND failed Viz?

[Belzelbub]

Well, now he's getting to personal insults and name calling so all bets are off. He's claiming that it was all just a minor misunderstanding and not a rip off at all. Condemning two tanks without testing but taking my money anyway isn't a "minor misunderstanding". It's either a blatant example of incompetence among the staff or it's an intentional rip off.

The shop is the Paragon Dive Group located in Tucson, Arizona on the North side. I was going to just let it ride but now I'm going to file a complaint with the Arizona State Attorney's Office. At least that way, there's an official record of their incompetence.

What a mess. I could see a mistake happening, but it should be owned up to and addressed. Doesn't seem like that happened.

Isn't the owner of Paragon Dive Group a member here? I'd definitely like to hear their side of the story.

However, bottom line, if they aren't XXXX'd out, they aren't condemned. I'd pick them up. If the Hydro was performed, it should either be X'd out or have a fresh hydro date. If neither, I wouldn't be paying for hydro. If they insist, I'd be contesting with my credit card provider after you have the tanks in hand, then go to another shop.

 

[MidOH]

Jeebus, not Paragon.

Hopefully it's just a tank mixup or something. You're not alone though. The scuba industry as a whole, needs to pull its xxxx together with tanks.

Otherwise we won't buy tanks from them anymore. I'm not buying tanks from a shop that just condemned my tanks.

 

[DiveTucson]

I wasn't even going to jump into this thread but as we have been named and now people are asking if I will offer a response. So here it is. As a shop we have an absolutely stellar reputation in the diving community and I have personally worked very hard to maintain that and live up to providing incredible customer service for sales, service, and training.

That being said there are just some people that you can't please and I think this is one of those cases. A ton of the posts mentioned earlier are either untrue or designed to cause drama and get all the keyboard warriors all fired up. There are blatantly false claims about fraud, being ripped off, etc.

We are not perfect and when we make a mistake we are the first to admit it. I actually personally looked at this tank with our shop tech when it first arrived. Here is our normal process for visual and hydro. The customer brings the tank into the shop and we charge them up front $49.00 for the visual, hyrdo, and fill. Before the tank goes to hydro we take a look at it. If everything looks good we send it to hydro and once back from hydro it gets the final visual sticker and then is filled. Often we get tanks back from this hydro facility with a ton of flash rust hence the final visual. If the tank fails hydro for whatever reason we refund the customer the cost of the hydro portion from the $49.00

In the case of this tank I honestly don't believe it would pass hydro based on the outward condition and rust primarily on the tank neck near the threads. I don't recall all the other reasons but this tank was, in my opinion, no way close to passing a visual. So instead of sending it to hydro the customer is called back and they can come pick up their tank. If they want it to still go to hydro they are more than able to tank it to the hydro station in town and deal with them directly. This is designed to save the customer time and money as well as us time and money of transporting tanks, etc. To be honest if this did pass hydro it is still not a tank I would want to fill at my fill station.

Here is where we screwed up on this:

Once the decision was made to not send the tank to hydro on of our shop employees put a sticker on the tank that stated "failed hydro and visual" and added these same notes to our POS system. This never should have happened as the tank was never sent to hyrdo and this was a big mistake. I was teaching in Mexico at the time the OP came to pick his tank up and my business partner was also not at the shop that weekend. We have a brand new shop employee that was working on the weekend by himself this day. He is not a service tech at all and honestly has no knowledge or experience in working with tanks at all including filling, etc. All he was able to do was to read the notes (which were not correct) and inform the customer of what he can see. At that point the OP started threatening action to an hourly employee who has no idea of what is going on throwing around complaints to the Arizona Attorney's Office of Fraud Division and things like that. This is a brand new shop employee that is barely an open water diver with no advanced training. He told the OP that one of us (owner's / service tech) would reach out to him with more information but this was not good enough even though the OP was called the next day. Then the threatening emails started from the OP. Our shop employee immediately refunded the entire transaction. This thread actually started on that day the OP came to pick up his tank. We never condemned his tank or told him it was condemned. In fact once we realized this happen we attempted to explain to the customer that it was never even sent to hydro.

We had some new staff and some miscommunications and have sense had training to make sure this issue never happens again. That being said the OP is correct based on his reaction and how he handled this he is no longer welcome in our shop.

We have completed hundreds if not thousands of transactions with Scubaboard members without an issue and only 5-Star reviews. Just search "Paragon Dive" on the board for proof. I would encourage everyone to re-read this thread and the OPs complaints that are inconsistent at best before passing judgement on how we run the shop.

Hope this helps!

 

[MidOH]

Nice to hear the other side of the story.

Hopefully more shops step up the hydro vis stuff, especially the darn galvanized tanks.

Love the Helium rig I got from yall. Works great with a Dgx wing.

 

[DiveTucson]

Nice to hear the other side of the story. Hopefully more shops step up the hydro vis stuff, especially the galvanized tanks.

Love the Helium rig I got from yall. Works great with a Dgx wing.

Unfortunately in Tucson there are just not enough tanks to make it feasible to bring these things in house. United Fire services the three dive shops in the city along with the Fire Departments, industry, etc.

 

[Waterwulf]

I wasn't even going to jump into this thread but as we have been named and now people are asking if I will offer a response. So here it is. As a shop we have an absolutely stellar reputation in the diving community and I have personally worked very hard to maintain that and live up to providing incredible customer service for sales, service, and training.

That being said there are just some people that you can't please and I think this is one of those cases. A ton of the posts mentioned earlier are either untrue or designed to cause drama and get all the keyboard warriors all fired up. There are blatantly false claims about fraud, being ripped off, etc.

We are not perfect and when we make a mistake we are the first to admit it. I actually personally looked at this tank with our shop tech when it first arrived. Here is our normal process for visual and hydro. The customer brings the tank into the shop and we charge them up front $49.00 for the visual, hyrdo, and fill. Before the tank goes to hydro we take a look at it. If everything looks good we send it to hydro and once back from hydro it gets the final visual sticker and then is filled. Often we get tanks back from this hydro facility with a ton of flash rust hence the final visual. If the tank fails hydro for whatever reason we refund the customer the cost of the hydro portion from the $49.00

In the case of this tank I honestly don't believe it would pass hydro based on the outward condition and rust primarily on the tank neck near the threads. I don't recall all the other reasons but this tank was, in my opinion, no way close to passing a visual. So instead of sending it to hydro the customer is called back and they can come pick up their tank. If they want it to still go to hydro they are more than able to tank it to the hydro station in town and deal with them directly. This is designed to save the customer time and money as well as us time and money of transporting tanks, etc. To be honest if this did pass hydro it is still not a tank I would want to fill at my fill station.

Here is where we screwed up on this:

Once the decision was made to not send the tank to hydro on of our shop employees put a sticker on the tank that stated "failed hydro and visual" and added these same notes to our POS system. This never should have happened as the tank was never sent to hyrdo and this was a big mistake. I was teaching in Mexico at the time the OP came to pick his tank up and my business partner was also not at the shop that weekend. We have a brand new shop employee that was working on the weekend by himself this day. He is not a service tech at all and honestly has no knowledge or experience in working with tanks at all including filling, etc. All he was able to do was to read the notes (which were not correct) and inform the customer of what he can see. At that point the OP started threatening action to an hourly employee who has no idea of what is going on throwing around complaints to the Arizona Attorney's Office of Fraud Division and things like that. This is a brand new shop employee that is barely an open water diver with no advanced training. He told the OP that one of us (owner's / service tech) would reach out to him with more information but this was not good enough even though the OP was called the next day. Then the threatening emails started from the OP. Our shop employee immediately refunded the entire transaction. This thread actually started on that day the OP came to pick up his tank. We never condemned his tank or told him it was condemned. In fact once we realized this happen we attempted to explain to the customer that it was never even sent to hydro.

We had some new staff and some miscommunications and have sense had training to make sure this issue never happens again. That being said the OP is correct based on his reaction and how he handled this he is no longer welcome in our shop.

We have completed hundreds if not thousands of transactions with Scubaboard members without an issue and only 5-Star reviews. Just search "Paragon Dive" on the board for proof. I would encourage everyone to re-read this thread and the OPs complaints that are inconsistent at best before passing judgement on how we run the shop.

Hope this helps!

This is actually mostly true except for a few things. I did not threaten any action to your shop employee about Arizona Attorney's Office fraud Division until after you denied in writing that your shop had any fault. Then it was done via email. There were never any threatening emails from me except to file a complaint and that was not a threat.

Yes, your shop employee offered a full refund but only after I got upset at the perceived rip off. Sure that tank looked bad but it was free so I thought it worth having it checked by a supposed professional. Then when I picked it up and saw no X's or a pass date stamped on the side of it and realized that it had never been sent out to hydro, I asked about it. Yes, that tank was condemned by you with a Sticky note, of all things. Otherwise, why would I have gotten upset?

Basically, you condemned this tank based strictly on it's appearance. Ok that's fine. After all, you're the pro's. It was probably a junker. However, you don't know that for sure. Besides, per your own policy: You give full refunds for failed tanks. Why wasn't my refund noted on that Sticky on the tank? Why did I have to ask to get it refunded? Why didn't I get a refund after your tech failed my first tank? This one being discussed here is the second one.

Yes, the staff at your shop screwed up and made mistakes. Several of them. I was justified in getting upset because I paid for services that were not rendered. I felt then and still do that there were to many mistakes made by your staff. You've addressed that with your employees and that's good. However, that doesn't excuse your initial response which was to blame me for the entire incident. That's why this started. And yes, you did call the next day but tell the truth. You never spoke to me. You've accepted responsibility here for some of the mistakes but are still trying to blame me.

Nope! This is all on you. You failed the Viz on first tank and offered no refund. You condemned the second tank for both Hydro and Viz and offered no refund until I demanded it. You condemned that tank with a Sticky! Then you try to claim that this is all my fault. Why should I not be upset?

 

[DiveTucson]

This is actually mostly true except for a few things. I did not threaten any action to your shop employee about Arizona Attorney's Office fraud Division until after you denied in writing that your shop had any fault. Then it was done via email. There were never any threatening emails from me except to file a complaint and that was not a threat.

Yes, your shop employee offered a full refund but only after I got upset at the perceived rip off. Sure that tank looked bad but it was free so I thought it worth having it checked by a supposed professional. Then when I picked it up and saw no X's or a pass date stamped on the side of it and realized that it had never been sent out to hydro, I asked about it. Yes, that tank was condemned by you with a Sticky note, of all things. Otherwise, why would I have gotten upset?

Basically, you condemned this tank based strictly on it's appearance. Ok that's fine. After all, you're the pro's. It was probably a junker. However, you don't know that for sure. Besides, per your own policy: You give full refunds for failed tanks. Why wasn't my refund noted on that Sticky on the tank? Why did I have to ask to get it refunded? Why didn't I get a refund after your tech failed my first tank? This one being discussed here is the second one.

Yes, the staff at your shop screwed up and made mistakes. Several of them. I was justified in getting upset because I paid for services that were not rendered. I felt then and still do that there were to many mistakes made by your staff. You've addressed that with your employees and that's good. However, that doesn't excuse your initial response which was to blame me for the entire incident. That's why this started. And yes, you did call the next day but tell the truth. You never spoke to me. You've accepted responsibility here for some of the mistakes but are still trying to blame me.

Nope! This is all on you. You failed the Viz on first tank and offered no refund. You condemned the second tank for both Hydro and Viz and offered no refund until I demanded it. You condemned that tank with a Sticky! Then you try to claim that this is all my fault. Why should I not be upset?

This is the last post I am making on this issue but you have actually never even spoke with me.

The tank was never condemned. Take it for a hydro.

-Ben

 

[Waterwulf]

This is the last post I am making on this issue but you have actually never even spoke with me.

The tank was never condemned. Take it for a hydro.

-Ben

I've never spoken with any of you except for the one shop staff. It was all communicated via email. Yes, I know the tank was never officially condemned, just what it stated on the Sticky. But it wouldn't have made any difference had I not known what to look for. I would have accepted the Sticky note judgment and you would have kept my money. That's what it all boils down to.

 

[happy-diver]

Mate how about you put your ugly rusty tank, and questionable character to bed, and let us get on with it



Have some fun man, play some music and sing some songs, no one really cares and nothing really matters

 

[flymolo]

wait, the tanks were free? where'd you find them, craigslist dumpster diving section?