Equipment Exploding tank shrapnel injures boy - Ploče beach, Montenegro

This Thread Prefix is for incidents caused by equipment failures including personal dive gear, compressors, analyzers, or odd things like a ladder.

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Almost all cylinders will survive a full year of "compressor-wetness”. If inspections are carried out annually,
Yet the example I gave from new lasted six months. Go figure.

Now I can see from the example you quoted from Francis C. Cichy report in his abstract where he stated:

"Corrosion of the steel tanks (cylinders) which contained sea water and were pumped to full pressure (with compressed air) was so rapid that the tanks (cylinders) were in danger of exploding after the 100 day test. Aluminium corrosion was much less severe" ....(end quote)

Now we should be able to identify the culprit here in time. Granted salt and fresh water, water volume content, cylinder pressure and material Steel aluminium all play a part. But the material and its susceptibility to corrosion here is the real kicker here not its tensile strength.

The Americans and the British understood this for a marine sub surface application and with oil lubricated compressor emulsion carry over water vapour dew point causation of internal corrosion However sadly our European EU ISO cousins didn't have a clue and completely went half cocked with a standard that incidentally later they back tracked on and amended. I think the American term for this is "Cover your Ass" and I say this in the hope that I don't offend any more woke dipshits on the forum.
But we are getting close to the real culprit and causation of these 'RUSTY THIN SKINS" .
 
Just as an update I've heard nothing from the young lad who lost his hand. Save to say as a guitar player I cant comprehend how I would have felt at 14 loosing a hand.

In the village where I live we have a local player in a well known rock band left handed who lost his finger in a workshop accident and made a false finger end to cover. How the heck you replace a compete hand

But in reply to scuba cooled who asked in post number 13 about oxygen
On the engineering front I enclose below a picture of the site with a large white oxygen cylinder.
Together with the ubiquitous Coltri compressor


6a.jpg
 
Also for the purposes of argument and discussion the photo of the exploded cylinder in question
With the pillar valve (with or without any burst disc) still intact.


5a.jpg
 
A closer enlarged view. And if you look real close you can even read that annual VIP sticker

3a.jpg
 
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Thanks for the additional pictures @iain/hsm, I appreciate it. Some of them certainly make me think of ECS. The exploded one is in too poor a state to hazard a guess from a keyboard, although the base does not resemble a typical ECS, which usually have very thick bases.

[..]
For reference the drawing of these type cylinders I enclose below in PDF
I don’t think we’re in disagreement here. As I stated, the typical diving steel cylinder has wall thicknesses above 4.0 mm, while I also noted that small oxygen bottles can have walls as thin as 2.5 mm (or lower). The attached is a typical small 3 L O2 bottle. A 10 L ECS cylinder will have a wall of 4.0 mm and a thick base of 15.6 mm.

Really? Not so. Look carefully at the drawing above of the exploding ECS cylinder 6 months old in a fresh water lake while being filled. It clearly states ISO 9809 now subsequently the proverbial Bull dung hit the fan and our beloved scuba la la land gurus and yen masters went into overdrive cover up mode. More on that later.
Yes, and that’s why I was careful to add that under some circumstances fracture does occur. The design, however, aims to reduce this possibility. This doesn’t always work, as the case under discussion demonstrates very clearly with the pictures you provided.

[...]

"Research has shown that corrosion rates in cylinders containing compressed air or nitrox can be more than 100 times faster than normal. If fresh water is present in the cylinder this can mean the loss of more than 2 mm of the thickness of the cylinder wall within 6 months. This is increased to more than 5 mm in the presence of salt water. Diving cylinder walls are generally between 2 and 5 mm thick".
[...]
I have seen that HSE article a few times and always assumed they derived their data from the Francis report, which aligns fairly well with their stated numbers. But the extremes in Francis’ report were under very specific conditions, which I would argue are rarely encountered in real-world use.

That HSE article isn’t one of their best pieces either. I emailed them long ago about this statement, I think they published this around 2013 or so? I did get no reply...:
Do not charge cylinders (such as delayed SMB cylinders) that have been emptied underwater, by decanting from your main cylinder – water from the empty cylinder may enter the 'charging cylinder' when they equalise
I had some troubles at one dive centre and thought this was exactly what had happened to them. The physics didn’t make sense to me, so I tested it.
I added a litre of water to an S80 and decanted from it: no water transferred. I repeated with around 5 litres, same result: not a single drop entered the whip or second cylinder. Only when I filled the S80 to about 3 cm below the dip tube was I able to transfer a tiny amount, no more than a few droplets. Of course such water ingress is easily noticeable by anyone, even untrained.

I mention this because I generally do trust government reports, but in this case the report might not be the best out there.

[...]
Yet the example I gave from new lasted six months. Go figure.
[...]
I assume the case you quoted is the 3 litre pony bottle that exploded in June 2011 in the UK. If memory serves, the cylinder ingested freshwater from a lake rather than contaminated compressor air. It was also an oxygen rebreather bottle, and the high oxygen content rapidly increased corrosion. If I recall correctly, the bottle was just under 2 years old, not 6 months. That is, if we are talking about the same incident.

Even so, I don’t think this example is representative of what happens to most wet cylinders. The overwhelming majority ingest water from the compressor. By nature, that water is almost entirely free of minerals and salts. This is very different from what happens when saltwater, or even lake water, enters a cylinder.

I haven’t had first-hand experience with lake-water ingress, but chemically it would likely contain dissolved copper, calcium, and especially chloride ions. The latter are highly corrosive. Not on the scale of seawater, but certainly far more damaging than the near-pure water from a malfunctioning compressor (Ignoring oils for a minute).

I do take issue with your claim that modern standards are woefully inadequate and dangerous, and that the SCUBA community is some kind of clown-show. They’re not perfect, and every incident like this should make us stop and consider improvements, but the standards are not as bad as you suggest. The safety record today is vastly better than it was decades ago.


I’m not saying this to downplay the risks of water ingress; quite the opposite. From my experience, it’s the single most important factor leading to condemned cylinders. But we need to state the facts clearly and make meaningful distinctions. “Wet” doesn’t simply mean “wet”. Where the water comes from matters enormously.
  • Compressor water: Bad, but with annual inspections the chance of catastrophic failure is minimal.
  • Lake water: Worse, though not as severe as seawater.
  • Saltwater: Highly destructive and I agree that failure can occur within months if not quicker.
Combine lake water with high oxygen in a rebreather bottle, and if everything lines up badly, a disaster is inevitable.

There is no “100-day rule” where a cylinder will fail after ingesting water. Extreme cases can produce such an outcome, yes, but those are rare outliers, not the norm.

No matter how thick we make the walls, or what alloy we use (swap 4310 for NE-8630 or similar), if conditions are bad enough, saltwater in a small rebreather bottle, the outcome is almost guaranteed to be catastrophic. The answer isn’t to demonise the standards in use, but to focus on education and diligent inspection.
Making a cylinder foolproof is not going to happen.
 
Heck when did I say that? LOL Assume nothing verify everything with reference. The answer may come later if we are allowed to continue or if I don't die of boredom but it is not quite what you're expecting.
Well, I just assumed that salt water causes more corrosion than sweet water. Publishing an assumption is a way to ask for more detail. Hence, verification. No need to take that personally.
 
I don't have much to add, aside from a few observations and clarifications.

From the video, it appears to be a mix of steel cylinders. Although the footage is fairly grainy, it seems to me that all the remaining cylinders are steel. If I had to hazard a guess, the shape of those cylinders would make me point to ECS or Vítkovice. Both are highly reputable manufacturers that produce excellent cylinders. Given the Eastern European location, Vítkovice would be the more likely source. But again, this is only speculation.

It was stated somewhere that SCUBA cylinders have a wall thickness of around 1/8" (3.2 mm), which is not quite correct. Wall thickness depends on the alloy used, the test pressure, and the outer diameter. Historically, three different formulas have been applied:
  • Bach-Clavarino formula (US): Often predicts failures at higher pressures than seen in practice.
  • Mean Diameter Formula (EU): Can be unsafe for thin walls and overly conservative for thick walls.
  • Lamé von Mises formula: Currently regarded as the most accurate.
The EU historically applied the Mean Diameter Formula, while the US used Bach–Clavarino. In 1981, an ISO workgroup compared all three and concluded that Lamé–von Mises was the most accurate. This was subsequently adopted in ISO 9809. The US is still stuck on the Bach-Clavarino formula.
Steel SCUBA cylinders generally have a wall thickness between 4.0 mm and 5.0 mm, while very small steel oxygen bottles might be as thin as 2.5 mm. Modern chrome-molybdenum steels have a yield strength of around 755–930 MPa and a tensile strength of 1030–1100 MPa. I would argue that the 1/8" is a tad too low for what is seen in most steel cylinders.
Aluminium fares worse. The modern 6061-T6 alloy has a yield strength of 280–295 MPa and a tensile strength of 330–345 MPa. This lower strength requires a much thicker wall: a typical S80 cylinder will have walls of 12 mm or more.

In general, the larger the diameter and the higher the test pressure, the thicker the wall must be.

Both steel and aluminium cylinders today are designed to burst without fragmentation (clause 10.4.3.3 of ISO 9809 and ISO 7866). They are intended to split along the side wall, with the tear not normally propagating into the base or neck. Mishandling or neglect can, however, still lead to fragmentation, though this is rare with modern alloys.

Burst discs are designed for one specific scenario: over-pressurisation. European countries do not require them on SCUBA cylinders, although some gases are supplied in cylinders with pressure relief devices (PRDs). It is highly unlikely that over-pressurisation was a factor here, as compressors are fitted with reliable safety valves. While these can be tampered with, I doubt that is what happened in this case.

I was also surprised to see some comments suggesting that rapid corrosion can occur within 100 days, even with distilled water. A so-called "100-day rule" was mentioned, which I had never heard of. There is no question that water ingress is harmful to any cylinder, steel or aluminium, but the idea that failure could occur in just 100 days is, in my experience, greatly exaggerated.

Most cylinders that suffer water ingress do so from the compressor itself, which by design, will have water with almost no minerals or salts. While not ideal, I have seen enough wet cylinders from compressors to know that it usually takes far longer than 100 days for corrosion to reach a critical point. In fact, even a couple of years of such "compressor-wetness" may not necessarily cause failure, though obviously this is not something anyone should test deliberately.

The 100-day reference originates from Francis C. Cichy’s report, which specifically examined saltwater ingress. That is a completely different scenario, and extremely rare. I have only personally observed it twice. Saltwater does indeed cause extraordinarily rapid deterioration, much faster than I ever expected. In just a few weeks, it can fuse brass valves to aluminium cylinders, for example. The attached photographs are from one such case.
View attachment 915909

This is why I find annual visual inspection so valuable in the SCUBA industry. Almost all cylinders will survive a full year of "compressor-wetness”. If inspections are carried out annually, the chance of a dangerous cylinder slipping through is extremely low (excluding gross negligence such as deliberate overfilling). Annual inspection weeds out problem cylinders before they become hazardous.

Without more details, speculation is all we have. Often in such a case, the cause of events is fairly straightforward:
  • The compressor was poorly maintained and delivered partially wet air (a common issue). Cost-cutting may have been at play.
  • Visual inspections were skipped for an extended period. Again, cost-cutting could be a likely issue.
  • A cylinder deteriorated to the point of bursting during filling. No over-pressurisation necessary.
As for how a bystander so far away was badly injured, either the blast produced shrapnel (which modern cylinders are not designed to do), or more likely, it propelled a nearby object with enough velocity to cause serious harm.
For perspective, an S80 charged to 207 bar will explode with about 0.45 MJ if charged with a diatomic gas such as air. That is roughly equivalent to 100 grams of TNT. A US-made Mk II hand grenade in World War II carried 52 grams of TNT, which means the energy released by a bursting S80 is comparable to two of those grenades detonating. I'm not an expert by any means on explosions, but the math does not leave me surprised of such an outcome. Quite the contrary, I would have expected even more bodily harm to more bystanders.

Either way, it serves as another reminder of the importance of adhering to annual inspection schedules.
This is a precious post.
Thank you.
 
Combine lake water with high oxygen in a rebreather bottle, and if everything lines up badly, a disaster is inevitable.

There is no “100-day rule”

Making a cylinder foolproof is not going to happen.
This is a good a place to start as any. Start at the bottom and work myself up
Everyone agree’s with your statement above the difference is only in how we mitigate this “inevitable disaster and the detail and in order to avoid any draconian legislative measures such as an annual hydro requirement for scuba cylinders as in some other countries.

A sort of if you don’t like this you will hate the what’s coming part alternative.

The 100 day rule is already in progress under what is called ACOPS (Approved Code of Practice)
In the UK professional offshore divers are the main target for now and the purpose of the ACOP is to enhance workplace safety while at the same time being aware that they will differ or conflict from current legislation and ISO standards.

Critically they won’t conflict but the current legal ISO EU CE standards for pressure vessels when used in diving applications presents a clear danger at present.

Steel by its very nature rusts and using cylinders of high tensile material strong steels that allow a lightweight very thin wall thickness are great for firemen and medical workers but for us in a fluid of water is to most asking for trouble. Yet contrary to expectation it is the internal corrosion that presents the major hazard.


Other pressure vessels offshore such as diving chambers and decompression chambers compensate for the corrosion aspect by using dissimilar metals for the weldolets stainless over weld layers on the critical sealing parts such as door o ring and medical lock grooves and the addition of a scratch skin or corrosion allowance (around 2mm) by compensation. Non of which would be easy in scuba cylinder manufacture.

Now the ACOP proposition is gearing towards a position for cylinders to undergo a simple internal visual inspection at 3 monthly intervals hence the 100 day rule. My understanding is that aluminium cylinder manufacturers may lobby for an exemption and if anyone wishes to make an inconel cylinder like we had in the old days then the ACOP proposal would be the cheaper solution.

But all are in favour of a change from the present unknown condition of steel rusty thin skin time bombs being filled and stored under pressure and using the high tensile easy to rust cylinders In the 3mm to 4mm wall thickness range typical of the 7 to 10 litre water capacity at 200 to 232 bar pressure with some 300 bar used as bail out in surface supplied diving applications both offshore and onshore.

HSE are also involved in professional scuba therefore this will have a bearing on insurance considerations and current liability rules for employers.

Maybe a Go-No Go gauge on the ring and plug for the threads replace the 0-ring and some lube on the threads. 10 minutes tops. It could be done quicker than a fill.

Then when this 100 day rule becomes an ACOP cylinders don’t have to change visual and hydro also don’t have to change it’s just a simple visual on site self inspection of internal condition verification safe for service.

This will help users to comply with our legal requirement under EU CE etc while at the same time increase workplace safety. And in this incidence save blowing a kids hand off.

A 4mm thick 10 litre 232 bar cylinder for reference to the newer thinner lighter high tensile material

CYL 10 232 .jpeg
 
In addition for further consideration is the 10 litre 232 bar blunder below from the same supplier as discussed above but with a 3.9 mm wall. Any wonder when they go from a bright smooth shiny internal finish to a rusty cavity of patchwork iron oxide of crevice and cavity they fragment?

While our American cousins can use old Pressed Steel tank hot dipped galvanised rounded out under DOT Happy as Larry with not a care in the world. While us lot pussy foot around dropping off cylinders to the filling monkey while driving as far away as possible out of the blast area.



CYL 10 232 Thin.jpeg
 
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