Expectations too high?

[xSandman3]

I am taking AOW right now, will finish this weekend. There are 6 of us in the class, and the other 5 are all new divers, with no dives beyond OW. We spent last weekend diving the Avalon Dive Park on Catalina, and by the time we were done, I was really tired of babysitting these others, especially my "buddy", who could suck an AL80 dry in about 15 minutes at 25 feet.

Get some dives and experience before you take AOW, you'll get more out of it if you're not still bouncing up and down in the water column and kicking up the bottom.

 

[herman]

I would suggest you get 15-20 additional dives in before taking on AOW. Find a competent buddy, get in some practice and then find a good instructor. My regular buddy was taking his AOW this past weekend and I had the opportunity to tag along and watch his "advanced" class in action. It was a sorry site. Almost none of the divers skills were up to what I would consider acceptable for exiting an OW class, much less completing AOW. The instructor took these students to 130 ft with all but one of them (my regular buddy ) crashing into the bottom and stiring up a huge sand cloud. I don't think a one of them had a clue what being neutral was. One "diver" looked like my lab swimming, pawing the water with both hands....at 130ft. We got lucky because the currents were very mild that day. This was my first time on the wreck but I have been told this wreck normally has bad currents

............ It doesn't necessarily make you an advanced diver. (But this issue has already been dealt with here on the Board.) In fact, even if you wait 50 dives before you do AOW - It doesn't make you an advanced diver. Only experience will. ............

I totally agree with this, the trouble is the card does make you an advanced diver in the eyes of many charter operators. Maybe even worse, some of the "AOW" card holders think they ARE advanced diveres....like the ones in the class I watched. They all needed a lot of bottom time and coaching to get their skills up to the point where they should be. In my opinion, you should at least have neutral buoyancy and trim pretty well under control before taking on more advanced diving and they only way to do that is to log some quality bottom time.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I would suggest you get 15-20 additional dives in before taking on AOW. Find a competent buddy, get in some practice and then find a good instructor. My regular buddy was taking his AOW this past weekend and I had the opportunity to tag along and watch his "advanced" class in action. It was a sorry site. Almost none of the divers skills were up to what I would consider acceptable for exiting an OW class, much less completing AOW. The instructor took these students to 130 ft with all but one of them (my regular buddy ) crashing into the bottom and stiring up a huge sand cloud. I don't think a one of them had a clue what being neutral was. One "diver" looked like my lab swimming, pawing the water with both hands....at 130ft. We got lucky because the currents were very mild that day. This was my first time on the wreck but I have been told this wreck normally has bad currents


I totally agree with this, the trouble is the card does make you an advanced diver in the eyes of many charter operators. Maybe even worse, some of the "AOW" card holders think they ARE advanced diveres....like the ones in the class I watched. They all needed a lot of bottom time and coaching to get their skills up to the point where they should be. In my opinion, you should at least have neutral buoyancy and trim pretty well under control before taking on more advanced diving and they only way to do that is to log some quality bottom time.

It's been a week, but I've been diving!

The last charter I was on never asked to see me diver card. I'm a DM. There were other DM's and instructors on the charter. There was also a diver who had done 1 dive beyond OW before this trip. Experience and level of diving didn't matter. We went where we went. I agree neutral buoyancy should be under control before taking on more advanced diving. I don't think AOW constitutes advanced diving. The first specialty class I did after OW was the bouyancy class and it helped a lot. I completed AOW somewhere in the 20-30 dive range. It didn't make me a better diver. It made me a diver with another card. Diving, watching, and learning is what made me, and keeps making me, a better diver. I still think if the class is offered in conjunction with OW, take it. Just keep in mind that it doesn't make you an advanced diver. It just gets you another card.

 

[Hoyden]

Everyone seems hung up on the word "advanced" in advanced open water - it really seems to be OW2 and if it was called that, no one would object to you taking it immediately after OW. After going through rescue, I think that basic dive instruction should include OW, AOW and Rescue - I understand the logic in breaking it down into separate classes (marketing, logistics, $$$), but I think that safety and the recreational value of diving would both be improved by having all new divers receive more comprehensive training.

Jackie

 

[kidspot]

For what it's worth - I took my AOW shortly after my OW. Around 12-15 dives I think (of which 6 were part of OW). I knew it was not to make me an "advanced diver" but the shop required it for several classes I want to take (Nitrox and Rescue). Plus it made for some great boat diving at a decent cost in beautiful water... what wasn't to like? It did give me some experience in new environments that I may not have gotten (I asked for limited vis, night, and scooter for my 3 "elective" classes) But in reality it was just a matter of going diving. There was no written test involved in mine (IANTD)

Hope you enjoy the journey

Aloha, Tim

 

[Wijbrandus]

AOW can be done after you complete OW. I only had two dives between my classes, and I took AOW to get wet (landlocked state).

In all honesty though, I think I'd have learned more from the class if I'd had more dives under my belt. I was still too new to diving to focus on what we were supposed to be learning.

 

[Sideband]

Everyone seems hung up on the word "advanced" in advanced open water - it really seems to be OW2 and if it was called that, no one would object to you taking it immediately after OW. After going through rescue, I think that basic dive instruction should include OW, AOW and Rescue - I understand the logic in breaking it down into separate classes (marketing, logistics, $$$), but I think that safety and the recreational value of diving would both be improved by having all new divers receive more comprehensive training.

Jackie

I'm kind of thinking out loud here, but, would it really make any difference? Divers that only do a couple of dives a year aren't really going to get that much more from having all of that at once. Most of it would be lost by the time they got back in the water the next year. Those that are going to do a lot of diving are probably going to take more classes and will get more from them by putting the knowledge into practice on a regular basis. I can (usually) tell a difference between an OW diver that dives regularly and and AOW/Rescue diver that gets 10 dives a year. The difference being the OW diver usually has better skills. If everyone dove regularly it would make sense to me to include more in basic training. As an aside, NAUI includes some aspects of Rescue in all of their classes.
I think you are right about the word "advanced" being the hang-up for a lot of us. OW2 would be a better name IMO.

Joe

 

[Dive-aholic]

Everyone seems hung up on the word "advanced" in advanced open water - it really seems to be OW2 and if it was called that, no one would object to you taking it immediately after OW. After going through rescue, I think that basic dive instruction should include OW, AOW and Rescue - I understand the logic in breaking it down into separate classes (marketing, logistics, $$$), but I think that safety and the recreational value of diving would both be improved by having all new divers receive more comprehensive training.

Jackie

Exactly. And that's why some agencies have started going away from the advanced title. I don't see it becoming a trend though. Besides, AOW is just an introduction to specialties. If done right, completing the specialties, even after AOW, will provide the advanced knowledge. That's why there's a master scuba diver level. Even that only requires AOW, Rescue, and 5 specialties. It doesn't mean you're a master scuba diver.

 

[ScubaDadMiami]

Everyone seems hung up on the word "advanced" in advanced open water - it really seems to be OW2 and if it was called that, no one would object to you taking it immediately after OW. After going through rescue, I think that basic dive instruction should include OW, AOW and Rescue - I understand the logic in breaking it down into separate classes (marketing, logistics, $$$), but I think that safety and the recreational value of diving would both be improved by having all new divers receive more comprehensive training.

Jackie

Jackie, you are actually right on target about a lot of things here. Before NAUI changed its course names to make them the same as everyone else's, the first Scuba course was called Open Water I (now known as Scuba Diver). The next course was Open Water II (now known as Advanced).

Normally, I do not encourage people to take every class right after completing another. However, the Advanced class is designed differently than most advanced training classes. It is designed to give newly certified divers a broadened experience while under the supervision of an instructor. This way, newly certified divers can try some navigation, night diving, etc. instead of learning it on their own. Besides, how do you know that you will like wreck diving without deciding to take it as a specialty (which can take a lot of time after which you find out you don't even like wreck diving) or experiment and possibly get injured?

The Advanced class is designed to give small introductions to the kinds of diving available in your locale, so that you can decide which you will want to learn more about by diving and taking additional training. So, in this case, I encourage people to continue with this class right after their Scuba Diver training.

If you become involved in a serious diving accident or incident, you cannot stop time and tell your buddy that you will go back and take rescue training in another year or two. So, I also believe in taking Rescue training right after completion of your initial Scuba certification.

I actually used to combine all three of these classes into one program for students wishing to receive this kind of education. After this, it is time to stop taking classes and go gain some diving experiences over time. If you want to take specialty training, get some basic experience and then come back for it. On the other hand, this three class combination training gives a well rounded background with rescue education before going out to slowly gain experience.

 

[MoonWrasse]

I took the advice that dives 5-15 were the most important. So I waited until after that to take my PADI AOW. The advice was good, I think dives 5-15 really enable you to get comfortable with the underwater world, and absorb much of the knowledge you learned in your OW class.