Exceeding the NDL during recreation diving

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Vbukin

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Messages
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Location
Bali
# of dives
25 - 49
Hello, I am a recreational diver with an AOW license and I use a Garmin Descent 3. I can't understand the difference between using a medium conservatism profile, going beyond the NDL limits but ascending slowly, following the computer's instructions—in essence, the decompression happens during the ascent since we always ascend very slowly—and using an aggressive conservatism profile without exceeding the NDL. Essentially, this seems like self-deception, and with the aggressive profile, we don't see deco diving on the graph. Could you please tell me if I can continue using the medium conservatism profile and follow the computer's instructions for decompression? To clarify, for me, this simply means continuing the dive, and the decompression will occur.

Many thanks
 
Hello, I am a recreational diver with an AOW license and I use a Garmin Descent 3. I can't understand the difference between using a medium conservatism profile, going beyond the NDL limits but ascending slowly, following the computer's instructions—in essence, the decompression happens during the ascent since we always ascend very slowly—and using an aggressive conservatism profile without exceeding the NDL. Essentially, this seems like self-deception, and with the aggressive profile, we don't see deco diving on the graph. Could you please tell me if I can continue using the medium conservatism profile and follow the computer's instructions for decompression? To clarify, for me, this simply means continuing the dive, and the decompression will occur.

Many thanks
1) Some dive operators say No Deco Diving and will penalize you if you do, even, if it clears without you having to make an overt stop.
2) It is a slippery slope. The whole point of deco diving is you need to plan for extra gas use. How many minutes over NDL is "ok"?
3) You can still ascend slowly with the less conservative settings.
 
I remember having a similar thought to yours when I first started diving; different computer algorithms calculate NDL differently, and as such how can a diver determine what is ‘safe’ diving practice?

It’s not the simplest issue, but a decent start is to realize that there is no solid specific line between ‘perfectly safe to ascend to the surface’ and ‘you WILL get DCI if you surface’. This is why one diver’s computer can require deco stops and another doesn’t, and both divers somehow usually surface without getting bent. It is NOT an exact science, despite being increasingly complex and technical as research has developed.

So, if you own a dive computer from a major manufacturer with a good reputation, I would just follow it. If you can set the conservatism to a setting that you prefer, go for it. BUT…..I would also learn (and I did early on my diving, well before I took any technical classes) some of the basics about decompression sickness, dive behavior that is associated with it, physiological factors, anything you can. This way your diving is more informed, and your behavior might change given the situation. If you’re pushing NDL, maybe you’ll opt for a longer safety stop. That’s just one example, there are many others.
 
Technical divers don't use more conservative settings to deceive or trick themselves into more deco time, they do it because they believe it keeps them safe. Therefore, skipping deco(less conservative setting) is not an option.

Expanding on what @tursiops said, a big chunk of technical training is calculating how much gas to carry so your buddy can lose all gas and both of you still get out while completing all decompression.

Another big part of the training is having a third party (instructor) validate that you can stay calm and in control during stressful situations. If something going wrong is an emergency and not just a problem to solve then you have gone beyond your training and experience.

What about personal skills? What happens when you time it wrong and get to your stop before it clears? Can you stop and stay there for 5 minutes? What about 10 minutes? What about if your buddies 2nd stage hose explodes while your holding your stop? Can you still hold the stop while helping them? Can they still hold the stop while waiting for you to donate your gas?
 
You add conservatism to get you out of the water sooner, and reduce your nitrogen uptake. If your just going to ignore the reduced NDL and go into Deco whether you clear it on accent or not what's the point? Your basically riding the NDL and taking on the same amount of risk.
 
Dive a less conservative setting, 45/95 or custom, and then use Surf GF to adjust your surfacing GF to the value you prefer.
Exactly. I was going to post this, but saw you beat me to it.

Doing this, you can maintain whatever safety margin you want, but it won’t show up anywhere as a deco dive. The GFs set in your computer are a guess as to what might be happening. You need to decide for yourself where that limit should be for you.
 
Thanks for all the answers! They really helped me start changing my opinion on this topic and become more professional.
Can you get access to nitrox?
Yes, i have nitrox certification.
 
Hello, I am a recreational diver with an AOW license and I use a Garmin Descent 3. I can't understand the difference between using a medium conservatism profile, going beyond the NDL limits but ascending slowly, following the computer's instructions—in essence, the decompression happens during the ascent since we always ascend very slowly—and using an aggressive conservatism profile without exceeding the NDL. Essentially, this seems like self-deception, and with the aggressive profile, we don't see deco diving on the graph. Could you please tell me if I can continue using the medium conservatism profile and follow the computer's instructions for decompression? To clarify, for me, this simply means continuing the dive, and the decompression will occur.

Many thanks
Your bolded comment make me suspect that you are approaching this situation from a very theoretical perspective. When you are "playing" with the health and function of your brain, spinal cord and who knows what else, you want to also view things from a simplistic and practical manner.

As others have said; the line between deco and no deco is blurry. It also moves around depending on your health, your exertion level, temperature and probably a number of other variables as well.

In my opinion, the difference between going right up to the limit of deco or going a tiny bit past it, is not that big in the terms of actual risk.

However, once you are used to seeing the computer go "a little into the red" you become accustomed to it and it is very easy to progressively push things a little further (progressively extend your dive). Each time you do this, it becomes easier and less stressful from a psychological point, but the actual danger is increasing as your nitrogen loads become more significant.

In my opinion, if you are going to risk aggressive exposures that are close to (either side) of the blurry line, then you should have some redundancy with respect to gas supply. Going up with a little deco and hanging for a few minutes is not generally difficult if you have decent skills, but what if you have some sort of serious equipment failure (or your buddy does and needs air}? Now you really have a "situation".

I've been bent a few times from "non-deco" dives and a little bent from short deco ones, all of which I followed a computers recommended or required stops. Once you are in deco, you ability to safely help a buddy or extricate yourself from some problems is severely compromised.

Go slow and think about "the games you are playing".
 

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