Examples of a dive death that could not have been prevented?

[MBH]

I dont really think it does this case justice to oversimplify things, but cave divers talk triple or quad. redundancy. I could say that keeping more back gas on hand, or not staging tanks (something ocean divers in my realm seldom do because you never know where the current will take you) would have saved this guy.

"Right from the start , things went strangely. Parker appeared distracted, and was not feeling well. Most of the more experienced WKPP divers were all sick and in street clothes, so could not dive and were running the surface, so I offered to do the dive in Parker's place. Parker said, "Don't you think that would be a bit much to bite off right now?". His stages were not all the way full, and he had a 3x Tekna scooter (Gavin had a Gavin). I offered my full bottles and more powerful scooter. He said, "No, it's too late"."

With respect, this doesnt sound like smart diving. If you feel sick, if your tanks are not full, if your scooter isnt as powerful, and if you turn down an offer for better items... Well damn you know my point I wont beat it to death.

Shockingly it almost seems from this description that the man was depressed and apathetic about his safety. I hate to say such a thing not being inside his mind, and to say that about a person who died, but jeez he was doing some serious work. Youd think he would have taken the gear requirements very seriously.

I didn't oversimplify things. You asked for an example/evidence of a diver who did everything by the book.

I gave it to you.

GI3's observations and Bill Gavins first hand account are supplied as evidence.

If you can find fault with Parker Turner....then you are a better diver than anyone I know.

 

[Web Monkey]

I didn't oversimplify things. You asked for an example/evidence of a diver who did everything by the book.

I gave it to you.

GI3's observations and Bill Gavins first hand account are supplied as evidence.

If you can find fault with Parker Turner....then you are a better diver than anyone I know.

You're comparing apples and hand-grenades.

The people that do these extreme penetration dives into the unknown do them at least in part because of the difficulty and danger, not in spite of it, and they die with great regularity.

These dives are a far cry from open water dives with well-known documented risks and procedures.

If safety was really their primary concern, what got trapped in the cave would have been an ROV, not a person.

Terry

 

[z3r0c00l]

I didn't oversimplify things.
If you can find fault with Parker Turner....then you are a better diver than anyone I know.

Did you read my post or the link you sent me about Parker Turner? I will quote the link you sent me, again:

"Parker appeared distracted, and was not feeling well. Most of the more experienced WKPP divers were all sick and in street clothes, so could not dive and were running the surface, so I offered to do the dive in Parker's place. Parker said, "Don't you think that would be a bit much to bite off right now?". His stages were not all the way full, and he had a 3x Tekna scooter (Gavin had a Gavin). I offered my full bottles and more powerful scooter. He said, "No, it's too late"."

Please read this above paragraph. Parker made several clear mistakes, even in the face of his friends suggesting he take better gear, and tanks with more gas. He was not feeling well. He made a rookie mistake of diving when things were not right, of not taking better gear when it was easy to do so, and not turning the dive when others suggested he didnt seem ok. "Its too late" was his reply. With respect to him, he sounded apathetic about his own survival. I can think of several cases that have much less negligence that you should have sent to me instead.

Edit: Why is my avatar the depressed looking santa with the coal eyes?

 

[MASS-Diver]

I dont really think it does this case justice to oversimplify things, but cave divers talk triple or quad. redundancy. I could say that keeping more back gas on hand, or not staging tanks (something ocean divers in my realm seldom do because you never know where the current will take you) would have saved this guy.

"Right from the start , things went strangely. Parker appeared distracted, and was not feeling well. Most of the more experienced WKPP divers were all sick and in street clothes, so could not dive and were running the surface, so I offered to do the dive in Parker's place. Parker said, "Don't you think that would be a bit much to bite off right now?". His stages were not all the way full, and he had a 3x Tekna scooter (Gavin had a Gavin). I offered my full bottles and more powerful scooter. He said, "No, it's too late"."

With respect, this doesnt sound like smart diving. If you feel sick, if your tanks are not full, if your scooter isnt as powerful, and if you turn down an offer for better items... Well damn you know my point I wont beat it to death.

Shockingly it almost seems from this description that the man was depressed and apathetic about his safety. I hate to say such a thing not being inside his mind, and to say that about a person who died, but jeez he was doing some serious work. Youd think he would have taken the gear requirements very seriously.

What part don't you get? None of the factors you listed had any role in this freak accident. The cave collapsed in!

 

[RS]

I also think I know enough to know how little I know, that is the right way to be.

Give me direct evidence, link me to the story of a great diver who died doing everything by the book. "Some say" or "Ive heard that" doesnt really cut it. I will reply if you show me an example.

A link to the story of Liz Halbach is here:

Divers4Life | Liz & Tim's Adventures

Here is another discussion on Deco Stop about Jeff Thompson:

The Deco Stop

 

[RS]

Yeah, that must have been really hard for the husband to post that story, and for us all to learn a little bit

 

[MBH]

And what have you learned from this incident? That diving solo is not recommended...duh. What diver hasn't heard that?

Since we still have no official report posted you can't second guess the diver. You don't know what mistakes were made. You don't even know for sure he was solo unless you were there...and you weren't.

Don't discount the possibility that if the man had a buddy they might both be deceased. I'm not saying the chances are greater. I'm just saying it is a possibility. Folks who find themselves in life and death situations act irrationally sometimes. For example, divers in OOG situations commonly rip the reg out of their buddy's mouth. We don't know what would have happened if he had a buddy. Things probably would have turned out differently, but we will never know, so why speculate?

Bottom line...none of us have learned anything from this incident simply because we don't have the facts. Since we don't have the facts we (including you) should not be speculating. Period.

Not to mention the fact that someone asked a legitimate question regarding diving deaths, I supplied a very direct and specific answer, with supporting doccumentation and references....and annmarie deleted my post for being "off topic".

 

[RS]

In the spirit of Christmas I'm editing my whine post to say:

Merry Christmas and Happy Diving!

 

[z3r0c00l]

Can anyone think of an example of a dive death that could not have been prevented? I mean given the dozens or hundreds of active readers here, I would think we could find one. But no one has posted one to date...

 

[Scubakevdm]

Heart attacks, etc.