Ever Examine Why?

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Ever see someone struggling to find their BC inflator?
Actually, no.

They are grabbing at their snorkel, chest, back, etc, until they find it? Having the octo on the right side makes it simpler to find your BC inflator hose, in my opinion.
I've seen people that couldn't find their butt with both hands, but they always know where their inflater is. It's the most often-manipulated piece of equipment that anybody dives with.

Terry
 
I've seen people that couldn't find their butt with both hands, but they always know where their inflater is.
Terry


I can see from your photo, that you can find your butt pretty easily. But some folks do have small butts, and it is nothing to be a shame of!! I have to admit.... Sometime I dive without securing my inflator, and have to reach way, way, back to find it floating behind me.

But problems of finding butts.... Hmm... Why would you be grabbing your own butt??
 
So here is a question I present to all those of you who will take the procedures you were taught and adapt to them without questioning their practicality. Why is the octo on the right side in so many agencies, and schools of thought?

Actually my OW instructor did position the alternate second stage on the left. He also refused to keep an alternate/inflater in the store but would order and teach on request, but I digress.

What are you going to use an alternate second stage for? To assist an OOA diver, to fill a lift bag, to intentionally share air to optimize bottom time, if a distressed diver snatches your primary from your mouth or for you to breathe if your primary fails.

Think about that last one for a moment.... The common failure mode of a regulator is over delivery so the chance of the thing shutting down is a minority case and the alternate only helps if it's the primary second that fails closed. If it's the 1st stage that chokes you are SOL. If you are looking for redundancy the answer is a pony or a doubles configuration. Going to an alternate in a free flow situation will only serve to deplete the remaining air faster, breathe from the thing while you seek your buddy or the surface.

So lets say you do have your alternate second stage coming from the left. If it is a conventional single orientation model then it will present to you upside down. This is what mine does and I breath from it that way every few dives as a drill, no problem. Mine happens (Sherwood Standard) to breath just fine this way. If yours does not work well upside down then you the regulator and a left hand configuration are not meant for each other. Beyond that my standard hose is long enough for me to loop it back around so that I can can use it just fine in a right side up configuration if I want (or need) to be on it for a while. This is no more of an issue than the lauded long hose maneuver only reversed. If your alternate second stage is a hockey puck any position unit then who cares?

With a conventional alternate from the left it presents perfectly to a distress diver face to face that needs to tap into my air or my partner swimming at my left to extend a dive.

The ONLY aspect of this configuration that I am not 100% pleased with is that I have a hard time positioning the alternate "in the triangle' With the HP hose and inflater already on the left shoulder it gets busy. While I have resisted crossing to the right or going on the sternum strap some of the newer magnetic alternate keepers (inherent breakaway in an emergency) make that a more viable option.

Like all of this adaptive gear your answer lies in your exact gear and what works for you. Thinking it though is where you will find YOUR best answer.

Pete
 
This is what I love about Scubaboard.
The debates about the way I do it is the right way and yours is wrong and the training agencys are even wronger (I don't care if it's a word or not).

20+ plus years of diving insta-buddys (students) all with an Air2/short primary (yes my teaching set has both Air2 and Octo(on the left)so I teach both) has proven to me that if you don't dive this way you will die and kill your buddy.
I am kidding.

My opinoin is learn to use what you have long,short, air 2 or buddy breathe whatever works for you and whatever reason you you can think of to use it.
If I was a overhead diver I would be singing the praises of the long hose but for Rec. diving I have never seen the need for it.
Isn't part of being a good buddy team planning a dive and checking on each other? If that is the case and you do it, do you really need that octo any way?

The donor is the one to be in control.period.
There is no buddy team in an OOG only victim and rescuer.
 
Without getting into all the hose lengths thing, the only people who care about this are a few people on scubaboard. Only a few percentage of divers in the non-internet world dive the cave long hose rig in an open water dive.

The OP is incorrect anyways. The short hose is the primary and that is the one the donating divers KEEPS. This one is usually routed OVER the shoulder and has a short 24 inch hose

The "octapus" that will be donated is usually rigged on a longer 36 to 40 inch hose and that goes UNDER the arm and then is clipped by various means to the center chest area or can be hung on the neck with a break away strap. This is the reason most octapus units sold are bright green, orange etc on a yellow hose--from the factory.

If you buy a new AL, SP, whatever, it will come with a short hose primary for over the shoulder and a long(er) hose octapus that will be green, yellow, orange etc and usually on a yellow hose so that everybody can tell which regulator is to be the donated regulator--great idea--instead of all black which would be confusing to most divers.

Why is this so hard to understand? I mean, 98% of divers diver this way and are taught this way by every agency except for maybe DIR. This works better with most jacket, vest, so called back inflate BCs and work just fine with a BP/wing. A 40 inch hose will allow swimming and will allow an ascent. There is no cave. Most divers do not have any interest in cave and most have no buisness in a wreck. Their "universal" rig is just fine for their vacation or even advanced diving and it is less complicated than stuffing hoses and wrapping them around your neck and all of that, it is lighter and packs better.

The OPs history is incorrect. The donating diver is the diver in control, the OOA recieving diver is to follow the lead of the donating diver, if a simple and direct ascent can be made the donating diver is in physical contact with the OOAD, locked arms or whatever method was taught, and a direct ascent is made. This "physical" contact comes from the early days where most divers were water people who were Life Saving or WSI trained. The first thing a lifeguard does with a drowning victom--once the decision is made to make contact--is to gain control, this concept transferred to scuba when buddy breathing was the preferred method and double hose was all there was. The divers faced one another holding each other's harness and made an ascent switching the mouthpiece back and forth and rotating it. When the single hose became universal and octapus became the standard method of air sharing the only thing that changed was that buddy breathing was no longer required, the physical contact and "CONTROL" aspect remained to this day. The donating diver is the diver in command, the physical contact and eye contact not only reassures the OOA diver but it allows the donating diver to monitor the recieving divers condition, not possible with the recieving diver wandering around on the end of a a seven foot long hose out of arms reach.

The long hose method works great with highly trained technical/cave divers who have practiced over and over and who work in teams and they know one another and trust one another. This is not--NOT--the circumstance 98% of diving ocurrs in, the divers are not practiced, they are not 1,000 dive divers, they are not in an overhead, they may not know one another very well, they may not have practiced airsharing since they got "certified" and they cannot be trusted not to panic or bolt for the surface if left dangling on their own. This is standard life saving ettiquette and makes sense to 98% of the diving world.

N
 
...and I just can't see this being natural at all

...neither is breathing underwater.

:)
 
Well this presents a bigger problem. You're still using a short hose to donate to your partner and now your shoving a low pressure inflator hose in your mouth and I just can't see this being natural at all

yeah, and doing a controlled ascent, venting, while breathing and with another diving hanging off you its tricky. not to mention uncomfortable in the mouth. I bought one, regret it!
 
Without getting into all the hose lengths thing, the only people who care about this are a few people on scubaboard. Only a few percentage of divers in the non-internet world dive the cave long hose rig in an open water dive.

The OP is incorrect anyways. The short hose is the primary and that is the one the donating divers KEEPS. This one is usually routed OVER the shoulder and has a short 24 inch hose

The "octapus" that will be donated is usually rigged on a longer 36 to 40 inch hose and that goes UNDER the arm and then is clipped by various means to the center chest area or can be hung on the neck with a break away strap. This is the reason most octapus units sold are bright green, orange etc on a yellow hose--from the factory.

If you buy a new AL, SP, whatever, it will come with a short hose primary for over the shoulder and a long(er) hose octapus that will be green, yellow, orange etc and usually on a yellow hose so that everybody can tell which regulator is to be the donated regulator--great idea--instead of all black which would be confusing to most divers.

Why is this so hard to understand? I mean, 98% of divers diver this way and are taught this way by every agency except for maybe DIR. This works better with most jacket, vest, so called back inflate BCs and work just fine with a BP/wing. A 40 inch hose will allow swimming and will allow an ascent. There is no cave. Most divers do not have any interest in cave and most have no buisness in a wreck. Their "universal" rig is just fine for their vacation or even advanced diving and it is less complicated than stuffing hoses and wrapping them around your neck and all of that, it is lighter and packs better.

The OPs history is incorrect. The donating diver is the diver in control, the OOA recieving diver is to follow the lead of the donating diver, if a simple and direct ascent can be made the donating diver is in physical contact with the OOAD, locked arms or whatever method was taught, and a direct ascent is made. This "physical" contact comes from the early days where most divers were water people who were Life Saving or WSI trained. The first thing a lifeguard does with a drowning victom--once the decision is made to make contact--is to gain control, this concept transferred to scuba when buddy breathing was the preferred method and double hose was all there was. The divers faced one another holding each other's harness and made an ascent switching the mouthpiece back and forth and rotating it. When the single hose became universal and octapus became the standard method of air sharing the only thing that changed was that buddy breathing was no longer required, the physical contact and "CONTROL" aspect remained to this day. The donating diver is the diver in command, the physical contact and eye contact not only reassures the OOA diver but it allows the donating diver to monitor the recieving divers condition, not possible with the recieving diver wandering around on the end of a a seven foot long hose out of arms reach.

The long hose method works great with highly trained technical/cave divers who have practiced over and over and who work in teams and they know one another and trust one another. This is not--NOT--the circumstance 98% of diving ocurrs in, the divers are not practiced, they are not 1,000 dive divers, they are not in an overhead, they may not know one another very well, they may not have practiced airsharing since they got "certified" and they cannot be trusted not to panic or bolt for the surface if left dangling on their own. This is standard life saving ettiquette and makes sense to 98% of the diving world.

N

Wow, this makes too much sense. It's too bad that most responses on Scubaboard are from long hose divers who refuse to say that it serves no purpose in the typical dives you mention. When they do, they say that you should still dive long hose no matter the dive because you're used to diving that way.
 

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