Emergency O2 in Minnesota

[fxb]

@fxb that's what the RescuEAN's are for. Demand valves on medical regs are no less dangerous than trying to give breaths to an unconscious person with a scuba regulator. Frankly it may actually be less dangerous since there is an exhaust valve on there so it can't build up quite as much pressure. It's not an MTV-100 which I keep with me when teaching, but a RescuEAN with a BVM and non-rebreather mask work perfectly fine.

Ah, yes I had forgotten that the exhaust valve would still work while the regulator is being purged. So it seems like in the best case this technique would be ineffective as all or most of the gas would vent out to the sides, and in the worst case you may end up delivering a massive amount of air to the lungs and/or stomach causing further injury. I get what you're saying, and it might work, though I certainly would not want to try it (or have it tried on me). And you mentioned the demand valve like the ones DAN sells don't have an exhaust. This is true, but is there a way to start gas flow without a negative crack pressure (aside from MTV?) I can't recall that there is but may be mistaken.

Either way, the technique of positive-pressure ventilation is well beyond the scope of an AN class, even if you have Rescue and First Aid the topics on providing emergency oxygen there do not get into that.

Agree, the RescueEAN + BVM seems like a really great option and would cover pretty much any scenario, especially if a medical cylinder and regulator is not accessible or has been depleted. I'll have to get one of those... looks neat.

Anyway. I think if you've got an unconscious, non-breathing diver you've got bigger concerns than trying to cobble together a PPV system. If no MTV or BVM is available (and nobody trained to use them), better to use standard mouth-to-mouth rescue breaths with or without a barrier. (IMO)

 

[tbone1004]

@fxb the standard demand oxygen regulators have a purge button for ventilations and are dangerous as hell because a strong seal with the pocket mask can cause a lung to explode. The scuba regulator won't. The MTV100's will stop with any real backpressure which is ideal.
The RescuEAN is awesome. Have only used mine in training but I think it's far better than buying a medical o2 system. I only keep one for the MTV100's when teaching because it is better, but if you're conscious, you're going on a scuba bottle with the RescuEAN or a second stage in your mouth

 

[fxb]

@fxb the standard demand oxygen regulators have a purge button for ventilations and are dangerous as hell because a strong seal with the pocket mask can cause a lung to explode.

Interesting, I double checked on mine from DAN (which I believed is manufactured by Allied Healthcare), it does not have a purge function. I agree, if it did that would be exceedingly dangerous without an exhaust or resistance shutoff like the MTV. Do you know who manufactures the one you are referring to or where you got it, out of curiosity? Definitely news to me

I found this thread as well which has some good insights. I would say we might move the convo there so at not to derail the topic of oxygen in Minnesota further, but it is locked. Using the regulator to provide rescue breathing.

Edit: LOL, just read to the end of that thread and saw why it was locked. There you have it I suppose, guess we better quit while we're ahead

 

[tbone1004]

@The Chairman we will try to behave on this one. Since he quoted your message though, what does ASHI say about demand valves since they are technically an "approved respiration device" designed to allow one handed use in-lieu of a BVM

@fxb the one I'm referring to is this one. DAN still sells it, still used in the EMS field. I won't touch them though. BVM or MTV-100 if I'm giving ventilations.
DAN: Online Store | scuba diving safety equipment

 

[The Chairman]

what does ASHI say about demand valves since they are technically an "approved respiration device" designed to allow one handed use in-lieu of a BVM

Scuba demand valves are fine if the victim is awake and breathing on their own. Do not, under any circumstances, try to use one to resuscitate an unconscious individual. Way too much air. Way too much pressure. Way too easy to embolize them. YOU are the only choice if you don't have a proper valve. YOU can take a breath off of an demand regulator and inspire the victim orally. That can be either with NttrOx or O2 if you so desire.

 

[tbone1004]

Scuba demand valves are fine if the victim is awake and breathing on their own. Do not, under any circumstances, try to use one to resuscitate an unconscious individual. Way too much air. Way too much pressure. Way too easy to embolize them. YOU are the only choice if you don't have a proper valve. YOU can take a breath off of an demand regulator and inspire the victim orally. That can be either with NttrOx or O2 if you so desire.

I was asking about the medical demand valves. This one below. They're medical devices designed for it, but with one less safety mechanism than a scuba regulator. Both are bad ideas obviously, but was just curious if they are OK with those
DAN: Online Store | scuba diving safety equipment

 

[fxb]

I'm not sure the one in the link actually does have a purge or manual trigger function. Pretty sure it's the same as the one I got in a combo from DAN last year. The only way to activate it is to get a good seal and inhale; there is no button or anything. It's intended for use by conscious and breathing patients. Unconscious you're options are oronosal mask or non-rebreather mask with constant flow, or nonbreathing an MTV, BVM, or rescue breaths.

 

[tbone1004]

I'm not sure the one in the link actually does have a purge or manual trigger function. Pretty sure it's the same as the one I got in a combo from DAN last year. The only way to activate it is to get a good seal and inhale; there is no button or anything. It's intended for use by conscious and breathing patients. Unconscious you're options are oronosal mask or non-rebreather mask with constant flow, or nonbreathing an MTV, BVM, or rescue breaths.

must have redesigned then. It used to be a thing and I've seen several in DAN O2 kits that have purge buttons designed to ventilate. Glad they got rid of them, they're sketchy as hell

 

[2airishuman]

@2airishuman I don’t want to come off as rude through text, I went to several shops within an hour of the metro. They will all take your medical cylinders for a fill, seems you just have to approach the right people and do a bit of talking story.

Thanks, I'll check further. I only checked the shops I usually use. May have to talk to others.