Egyptian diver Wael Omar prepares for deepest dive of 400 metres

[admikar]

Frankly, these dives are not only extremely dangerous, but pointless as well, imo. Unlike traveling faster or going into space, record deep dives serve no purpose beyond the ego statement.

Just out of curiosity, what's a purpose of a new rocket car Bloodhound attempt?
If his support team is aware of risks to THEMSELVES, and accept those risks, it's his life/money/whatever.
Stupid/pointless? Yes.
Should he do it? If that's what turns him on, like I said, it's his life.

 

[hargikas]

To paraphrase Mallory "because it's deep."

Having spent around 15 years mountain climbing, I was fortunate to meet some of the elite climbers of our time (Hillary, Messner, Lowe, Venables, Twight, Bonington, Scott, Blanchard, Boukreev, Breashears, Hargreaves, Wood, etc.) who pushed the boundaries of what was thought impossible. It is addictive and driving. Technological advances often resulted.

I think there are parallels with deep diving.

GJS

Well not so much! As humans we have been deeper, and more so, we have manage to get some work down there. The technique he is propably using doesn't push forward any of the science and the technology.

If, however, he was planning the attempt using the same approach as previous attempts, successful and unsuccessful, have used; then I think it is a pointless exercise that carries a high risk of tragic conclusion.

My assumption, based on the little information publicly available, is that there will be no novel or ground-breaking strategy introduced during his depth record attempt.

If no cutting-edge or revolutionary approach is being used, then there is little potential for learning or advancement from the attempt. The scientific factors relating to hyperbaric physiological effects at these depth ranges are already well understood and predictable. Commercial diving conquered the challenges of reaching these depths many decades ago.

HPNS and compression arthralgia precludes rapid descent to extreme depth. Commercial diving solved this issue by drastically slowing onset of pressure through very slow descents in surface-supplied diving bells.

That approach contrasts distinctly from the rapid 'bounce' dive attempts that have hallmarked scuba record attempts thus far. No scuba depth record attempt has yet opted to instigate a comparably slow descent, due to logistical/practical limitations on the gas that can be carried.

Other extreme depth factors, like gas selection, gas delivery, precision gas production / blending and thermal protection have also been solved in the commercial diving world.

I am absolutely stumped to find any scientific advancements that a 'plummet and pray' approach to attaining extreme depth in scuba equipment can provide. Beyond, of course, more positive evidence that the existing solutions are fatally flawed and inherently limited.

For those that missed it, here are two pertinent background articles relating to the 2015 world depth record attempt:

A Fatal Attempt - Psychological Factors in the Failed World Depth Record Attempt 2015
by Andy Davis (amended and also published in Diver Medic and Dive Safety Magazine, Dive Magazine and Skydive Magazine)

Factors in Deep Scuba Diving | Doppler's Tech Diving Blog
by Steve Lewis

 

[DevonDiver]

Just out of curiosity, what's a purpose of....

The way I see it, there are two 'types' of record; those primarily dependent on human factors and those primarily dependent on science/technological factors.

Breaking an automotive land-speed record is primarily dependent on scientific/technological factors.

Breaking a 100m sprint, or marathon record is primarily dependent on human factors. So are apnea diving records.

Most people tend to assume that breaking a world scuba depth record will also be primarily about human factors.

This would only be true in respect of extreme-depth hyperbaric physiology. Whether an individual was somehow more resistant / less effected by hyperbaric issues like HPNS and compression arthralgia. Basically, some 'X-Men' like deviation from the genetics and physiology of the human race.

The rest of the factors are scientific and technological; better equipment, better decompression modelling, better gas selection and preparation/blending...etc etc etc To be accurate, the necessary science and technology has already existed for decades;hence the considerably deeper depths attained by surface-supplied (commercial) divers.

However, regardless of science/technology, the human factor remains the limiting issue on all attempts on scuba thus far. That is because of fast descents employed.

Surface-supplied (commercial) divers minimize the issue of HPNS and compression arthralgia by employing very slow descents. Scuba divers do not.

Science has illustrated the solution for deeper scuba dives - slow descents. But no scuba world record attemptee has yet opted to employ that scientific knowledge. Why not?

I'd hazard a guess it is because the logistics, cost and physical endurance necessary to complete both a very slow descent and very slow ascent from extreme depth are deemed beyond capabilities and capacity.

If this, or further, scuba world depth record attempts remain focused on the human factor, then I believe they are fool-hardy.

I will retract that on the occasion that a diver is proved to have sufficient genetic deviation as to be immune to extreme depth hyperbaric physiological maladies.

I would have utmost respect for a diver, or team, who actually tried to employ, on scuba, the known science that has already enabled surface-supplied diving to far greater depths.

At this time, I am a firm believer that progressing the scuba world depth record is a matter of science/technology, not the human factor. 'Plummet and pray' is the antithesis of that.

 

[DevonDiver]

I just read this in the news..

I just read that report. There seems to be some element of BS regarding Wael Omar. The report claims that Omar is a former depth record holder (330m). I have asked the author of that report to cite his sources for that claim.

I can find zero references to support the claim that Wael Omar previously held any formal depth record.

Prior to Ahmed Gabr's succesful attempt at 332.4m, the formal Guiness world record was held by Nuno Gomez, at 318.25m. The deepest *unverified* dive was by Pascal Bernabe, at 330m.

Scuba Diving World Records - Deepest Longest - Dave Shaw - Nuno Gomes - Verna Van Schaik - Pascal Bernabé - Mark Elyatt - Johan Beukes

 

[hargikas]

I just read that report. There seems to be some element of BS regarding Wael Omar. The report claims that Omar is a former depth record holder (330m). I have asked the author of that report to cite his sources for that claim.

I can find zero references to support the claim that Wael Omar previously held any formal depth record.

Prior to Ahmed Gabr's succesful attempt at 332.4m, the formal Guiness world record was held by Nuno Gomez, at 318.25m. The deepest *unverified* dive was by Pascal Bernabe, at 330m.

Scuba Diving World Records - Deepest Longest - Dave Shaw - Nuno Gomes - Verna Van Schaik - Pascal Bernabé - Mark Elyatt - Johan Beukes

Very well stated! I didn't research it as much as you did! Well done!

I couldn't agree more with your posts in this thread!

 

[DevonDiver]

I put another article on my blog, inspired by this thread:

Scuba World Depth Records - Science versus the Human Factor.
Perspective on the future of scuba world depth records; the issue of human versus scientific & technological limitations on extreme diving depth.
Scuba World Depth Records - Science versus the Human Factor

 

[REVAN]

Here we go again....

Egyptian Diver Wael Omar To Attempt New Scuba Record In March – DeeperBlue.com

I want to ask "Why?", but I know there is no logical answer to the question. I hope it turns out better than Guy Garman's record attempt.

 

[XS-NRG]

28 hour dive? That's ridiculous. Does he plan to tea bag to 400m then spend the rest of the time in deco? I can think of better things to do with 28 hours. He will be exhausted after that and the OP is right in asking: for what? Saturation divers go nearly 2000ft so really this wont even be close to that. Hope he lives whether he makes the record or not!

 

[Pedro Burrito]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Merged another thread about the same topic

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[Coop42]

Just out of curiosity, what's a purpose of a new rocket car Bloodhound attempt?
If his support team is aware of risks to THEMSELVES, and accept those risks, it's his life/money/whatever.
Stupid/pointless? Yes.
Should he do it? If that's what turns him on, like I said, it's his life.

You might find this interesting. It's a recording/podcast of the BBC's "Infinite Monkey Cage" from last August. It's called The Need for Speed and during the podcast they discuss the importance of pushing technological and physical limits. There's an interesting discussion about the relationships between science, technology and engineering, and inspiring the next generation of engineers and scientists.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b063zx1g

It's 30 minutes long, BTW