Ear still pluged after a week ???? help

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My statements are not without credibility. Just ask pts who use chiropractors. We are very satisfied with the results we get using chiropractic care. We find credibility within our circle of experiences. I am so used to pts getting astonishing results, and I mean RIGHT NOW and TODAY results from musculoskeltal blockage, that I make these statements based on clinical experience.

No DocVikingo, I would not be interersted in studies published etc. I am a clinical doc, not a research doc. You and I have played this game before. I do not have the web addresses and published studies you request, and you know that that. Frankly Scarlet, I don't give a damn. I am simply here reporting on a treatment protocol (chiropractic vertebral manipulation) that is safe and effective and superior to drugs for the treatment of ear equalization disorders, otitis media, infection etc.

I've worked on pts for 20 years adjusting and noting the results. The results are wonderful. I anticipate dramatic healing response and we see this all the time.

Empirical observation is my research.

page crow DC
 
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page.crow:
No DocVikingo, I would not be interersted in studies published etc. I am a clinical doc, not a research doc. I do not have the web addresses and published studies you request, and you know that that."

Of course I am aware that you do not have the published studies I requested, and the reason you don't is obvious. I was simply hoping for some support other than unsubstantiated assertions based on clinical experience. "It's so because I say it's so" really isn't the manner in which medical knowledge advances and responsible health care is conducted.

That's news to me that clinical doctors aren't interested in published studies. Seems that most I know are. Makes you wonder who those thousands and thousands of subscribers to The Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, Journal of the American Medical Association, New England Journal of Medicine, British Medical Journal, etc. might be, doesn't it?

BTW, if I was a patient seeking chiropractic care I wouldn't be very reassured by a practitioner who seemed to take pride in being uninterested in the journal literature that informed his art. Is this the sort of attitude you expect for yourself and your loved ones when it comes to dentists, physicians and other personal health care professionals?

Regards,

DocVikingo
 
My research are my patients. My people. The humans who come into my office on a daily basis are my research. I have to look them in the eye and they tell me themselves whether they are getting better or not.

There are chiros who LOVE to quote research, they can give you the latest website and studies that substantiate chiropractic technique. That's not me. I LOVE to work on patients, day-in and day-out. Those people vote with their dollars and their participation in my office. They show up, they get better, they come back when they need to. That is my research. I am simply reporting my life's experience. I run a busy practice everyday, packed with pts who come in hurting and leave feeling better. It's not me. It's the application of a sound technique that works to get pts well.

Instead of attacking the messenger boy, why don't you address the issue? I make the statement that vertebral bone manipulation affects the inner-ear and the lungs, in fact, the nervous system affects every cell in your body. Chiropractic works and has been well established in this country over the last 100 years. In China, they call it "tui-na". Chinese medical doctors have been performing vertebral manipulation for 1000's of years, with good effect. If it was ineffective, they would have dismissed the practice a long time ago.

My work chiropractic is not toxic. It does not harm. It does not kill 100s of thousands of people a year, like pharma drugs do. It is a safe and appropriate therapy for people with vertebral dysfunction, and that's everybody.

DocVikingo...have you ever been to a good chiro before and taken adjustments?

I can certainly appreciate the methodology of proper research. Too bad American research in itself has lost so much credibility. We live in a day when researchers are bought and sold. Researchers who report adverse to what the financiers want to hear get fired. Drug companies report what they want doctors\teachers\the public to hear.

We clinical docs who deal with pts all day read what we can, do our best to keep up on literature as we can, but there is just so much time in the day to read all the documentation.

Then there's college teachers-PhDs who teach based on theories in the book and research that has been based on other peoples' published studies, theories and conclusions. All theory and no practice. When you spend all your time in school among academics, you don't tend to have a grasp on the real world people, the patients, the public.

My world and my research are my patients. They don't care about someone's fudged research. They just wanna feel better. They wanna dive without ear pain. They want more than theory and websites. They want action and results. That's where my energies lie.

I'm on this forum to bring to the publics' attention another technique and protocol for inner ear problems, other than drugs and surgery. I talk about chiropractic. Sorry it doesn't meet your academic standards DocVikengo. I don't care. That's not my mission. I understand your standard is properly controlled clinical trials. Great. My standards are getting sick people well despite opposition and medical suppression.

I enjoy very much reading academia, from many perspectives. I enjoy my peer-reviewed paperwork, data from other health care practices, even the theoretical research stuff.

But we are getting off track again. The reason I wrote this thread was to inform the public that they have options for inner ear disorders and asthma outside of orthodox medical practice. My experience, after 20 years of daily full-time clinical practice, is that the drugs medical doctors give their patients for inner ear, sinous and asthma disorders don't work. In fact, they make the pts feel terrible, sick and worse. I recommend chiropractic. If a person has not ever tried chiropractic, then they are overlooking a common cause for health imbalance, the vertebral subluxation condition.

page crow DC
Kansas City, MO
April 14, 2006
 
DocVikingo,

Oh...BTW...a mis-communication has occurred. Specifically, I am certainly interested in research and studies. I read them constantly. What I was not interested in doing was going out and trying to find documents and websites for YOU to substantiate my words. I have no credibility with you. And I don't care. My communications are directed towards the public.
 
page.crow:
I run a busy practice everyday, packed with pts who come in hurting and leave feeling better. It's not me. It's the application of a sound technique that works to get pts well.
While chiropractic treatment works well for a number of problems, someone with a hearing problem caused by SCUBA diving would be much better off seeing an ENT who understands diving and pressure-related injuries than a chiropractor.

My work chiropractic is not toxic. It does not harm. It does not kill 100s of thousands of people a year, like pharma drugs do. It is a safe and appropriate therapy for people with vertebral dysfunction, and that's everybody.
What about the increased risk of stroke from neck manipulations? http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/166/6/794

DocVikingo...have you ever been to a good chiro before and taken adjustments?
I have, and it worked great on my back pain. However I don't go to the dentist to take care of a broken leg, don't go to a dermatologist when I need new glasses, and don't go to a chiropractor when I have hearing loss after SCUBA diving.

While chiropractic is very good at treating some things, nothing is very good at treating everything, and spending time on the wrong treatment with the wrong doctor can make the injury permanent.

Terry
 
My research is on pts. My results come from the feedback of pts who recover from inner ear disorders during a course of chiropractic treatments. My conclusions and confidence in my work are based on experience. The outcomes are predictable.

I suggest you consult with chiros and researchers who work for the chiropractic profession to discover for yourself paperwork that represents what I do. I am a clinical doc, not a researcher.

For myself and my patients, physical success and recovery are the wins and gains we live for.

page crow DC
 
Chiropractic has a very narrow scope of practice-the vertebral spine. But since the spinal column influences the nervous system affects EVERY cell in the body, anatomy and physiology, chiropractic has a very full-body effect on structure and function.

For those of you (the medics, teachers, researchers etc.) that debate this issue, but have never been to a chiro and felt for yourself what I am talking about, I find it curious as to why you debate on an issue you have no experience in.

I dig the capabilities of an EENT (medical surgeon) who can open up an inner-ear and perform fantastic surgeries. But I also challenge that an EENT who does not know of the affect vertebral manipulation has on the middle and inner ear is practicing with incomplete experience. The easy thing is: this is knowable. It's not rocket science. Anyone can experience what I am talking about. To critique chiropractic without having ever been to a chiro is silly. There you go again debating theories without having your own personal experience.

"Unsubstantiated assertions based on clinical experience" (docvikingo quote) works for me. It works for my pts. It doesn't work for a researcher, trained in proper technique. I understand I don't make the grade when it comes to talking tech with researchers. That's OK with me. But there are people out there that want to dive and be well, and some of them don't want to dive on drugs. I'm here to reach that group of people and offer up another approach to handling inner-ear disorders.

Safe, non-toxic, inexpensive, remarkably effective...that is chiropractic technique.

page crow DC
 
Hey Terry,

I never said not to go to an EENT for scuba related injuries. I concur, if a person has barotrauma, the EENT is the first place to go. That doc is the most qualified to handle acute trauma of the inner ear.

What I do profess is this: When a person is having a hard time getting their ears to equalize, they should go have a chiro check them for vertebral subluxation (dysfunction). This condition is often painless in some folks (especially the people who take drugs all the time, their nervous systems are chemically depressed.) Simply put-stuck bone interferes with nervous and vascular flow and control of the body. A common complaint of VSC (vertebral subluxation complex) is muscle spasms. Internal muscles spasms of the myo that surrounds the Eustachain tubes can and often interferes with equalization balance. And many medical docs and medical teachers, including EENTs don't know about this, or are obstinate to learn about it.

VSC can and often is an underlying factor in inner ear disorders and asthma, both conditions that can prevent a person from diving. I want to keep people in the diving hobby. That is why I write this thread.

Best Regards,
page crow DC
 
Stroke risk and cervical adjusting (manipulations)

Terry,

I have been treating pts for 20 years. My schedule is booked every day with pts. I practice an aggressive form of chiropractic care, which means I often utilize the roughest form of chiropractic that is provided by any chiro. Some pts come in this office who have vertebral columns (with musculature) that is SO STUCK and non-moving, that they feel like a solid block of wood. It often takes a lot of work to get these peoples spines working again and functional.

In all these years, I have never and I mean NEVER had a stroke problem with a pt. I can easily say I have performed 100s of thousands of neck adjustments and NEVER had a stroke problem. And if any chiro is going to elicit a stroke reaction from a pt, it would be my work that would create this condition. But it hasn't. Most chiros are much gentler than I am on pts.

Never and stroke problem. Never a stroke claim. The hysteria about chiros causing stroke problems is way over-blown. Political medicine (the propogandists) bring up stroke risk to scare people from using chiros. It doesn't phase me or my pts.

page crow DC
 
page.crow:
My research are my patients. My people. The humans who come into my office on a daily basis are my research. I have to look them in the eye and they tell me themselves whether they are getting better or not.
Research is a very specific thing (e.g., Scholarly or scientific investigation or inquiry); it specifically IS NOT looking someone in the eye and obtaining a subjective appraisal of whether they are getting better or not.
page.crow:
There are chiros who LOVE to quote research, they can give you the latest website and studies that substantiate chiropractic technique. That's not me. I LOVE to work on patients, day-in and day-out. Those people vote with their dollars and their participation in my office. They show up, they get better, they come back when they need to.
I use a Chiropractor for various issues. She can quote research concerning the best way(s) to address various problems. If you think that the best way to decide on a course of treatment is to take a vote among your patients based on how they spend their money, well then I'm sorry but it sound no different to me than being healed by holding your radio up to the pain and mailing in money.
page.crow:
I make the statement that vertebral bone manipulation affects the inner-ear and the lungs, in fact, the nervous system affects every cell in your body. Chiropractic works and has been well established in this country over the last 100 years. In China, they call it "tui-na". Chinese medical doctors have been performing vertebral manipulation for 1000's of years, with good effect. If it was ineffective, they would have dismissed the practice a long time ago.
Since the middle ear is not enervated by anything that passes through the spine, vertebral bone manipulation will, clearly, have no effect on the inner-ear. It therefore follows that treatment of an inner-ear condition through such procedures will be ineffective.
page.crow:
Then there's college teachers-PhDs who teach based on theories in the book and research that has been based on other peoples' published studies, theories and conclusions. All theory and no practice. When you spend all your time in school among academics, you don't tend to have a grasp on the real world people, the patients, the public.
You may have had a bad experience with education, and if that's so, that's a shame. My chiropractor is not that way at all. You experience with, and knowledge of what goes on within the academic world runs quite counter to my own.
Chiropractic has its place, so do allopathic and homeopathic medicine. But you are indicting fields that you have not studied and thus are, to my mind, as guilty as that most closed minded allopathic physician. That type of physician eradicated smallpox ... and what do you say you did last week? Oh ... that's right ... you made someone think that they felt better.
 
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