Dumbing down of scuba certification courses (PADI) - what have we missed?

[Thalassamania]

A new 1971 Subaru FF-1G was $2,500.
A new 1984 VW Scirocco was $11,006.
IIRC, wife's new 2008 Audi A3 was $30K.

Sorry, but using new car costs, I'm only seeing "12x" growth across 37 years, and only ~3x growth for the period of circa 1983 to present.

And sure, car prices have gone up over time, but so too have the content. I don't recall having airbags, ABS or traction control in my '84 VW and my '71 Subaru didn't even have air conditioning ... nor even an automatic engine choke, for that matter.

From a scuba analogy, these cars were akin to the 'Mae West' horsecollar that lacked a power inflator, with its viciously endearing 3/4" wide crotch strap. Hurray for modern technologies...but let's remember to pay for them too.



Not really. The modern class typically today is arguably around $300 and the 4-5 of them that you need for comprehensive content equivalancy means that you're in the $1200-$1500 range, which pretty much matches your 15x claimed cost growth value. OTOH, if we use the cost growth numbers that I listed above, then today's products are at least 4x higher than what is explained by mere inflation.

Shifting inflation benchmarks, in 1983, the price for a gallon of gasoline was 81 cents. Today its roughly 4.5x higher and using that, the $100 class becomes equal to $450 today...which buys probably OW + AOW, but not Rescue, Deep or Deco.

Granted, we really should go to the Government's Consumer Price Index, so using this tool and the years 1982-2007 (since 2008 isn't available yet), it reports that what cost $100 in 1982 would cost $212.21 in 2007.

Care to list a couple of places where one can get even just an OW class today for $212, including the pool equipment and textbook?


-hh

PS: just for the heck of it, by backing it up to 1960 (IIRC, roughly when PADI was founded), $100 in 1960 would cost $692.89 in 2007. IMO, that's still not enough for four classes today.

Who cares? Yes there's been inflation. But today's cars are, in most way, better and more comfortable than those of forty-odd years ago. The AC Cobra that I had in college is worth about a half a million today (I wish I had still had it). Diver training was superior years ago. Most places you went, you paid your hundred bucks and got training that was adequate for you to comfortably do local diving ... not true now ... quite the opposite.

 

[daniel f aleman]

Diver training was superior years ago. Most places you went, you paid your hundred bucks and got training that was adequate for you to comfortably do local diving ... not true now ... quite the opposite.

The Open Water class was better then, but I really do think today's techniques and today's equipment make a difference concerning increased safety.

We know so much more about decompression as compared to what we knew in 1983 - and computers to help us with it.

I was full cave diver certified in 1983; think how much safer cave diving is now compared to what it was then.

And as I've said, one can get all the training that one wants... just find the right instructors.

 

[Thalassamania]

The Open Water class was better then, but I really do think today's techniques and today's equipment make a difference concerning increased safety.

We know so much more about decompression as compared to what we knew in 1983 - and computers to help us with it.

Decompression was never a real safety issue Very few divers did any decompression diving, and those who did used Navy Tables that had a huge safety margin because of their square dive assumption. I'd submit that our increased knowledge of decompression and use of computers has likely increased the number of decompression accidents because divers now push it much closer to the line. BTW, except for computers what more do we really know? We were doing mixed gas saturation back in the late 1960s.

I was full cave diver certified in 1983; think how much safer cave diving is now compared to what it was then.

Cave diving may be a lot safer, perhaps because it has come into its own as a legitimate diving discipline.

And as I've said, one can get all the training that one wants... just find the right instructors.

Ah, there's the rub.

 

[nereas]

Decompression was never a real safety issue. Very few divers did any decompression diving, and those who did used Navy Tables that had a huge safety margin because of their square dive assumption. I'd submit that our increased knowledge of decompression and use of computers has likely increased the number of decompression accidents because divers now push it much closer to the line.

BTW, except for computers what more do we really know? We were doing mixed gas saturation back in the late 1960s.

Cave diving may be a lot safer, perhaps because it has come into its own as a legitimate diving discipline...

I only saw the O/P's original post, so I dont know how the topic gravitated to deco and cave, since PADI has never taught deco until recently, and cave not at all.

I believe that most of the deco accidents are due to deco on the fly, which is strictly a GUE issue. NAUI uses RGBM and everyone else uses V-Planner (by and large).

Cave diving is indeed a lot safer, but with more people trying it, more are dying. Simple law of averages over a larger population.

 

[nereas]

I have been reading posts which talk about the simplification of PADI and other certification courses over the years. I though my PADI OW & AOW course were fantastic, but it makes me wonder---

Have new divers like myself missed important and useful information that was taught pre-1983? What has changed?

With PADI OW and AOW behind you, you have accomplished a satisfactory basic diving training course. Compared with NAUI, you missed a brief intro to rescue, but if you take the PADI rescue, then you will know that also. This is what I would highly recommend.

By now, you would have gotten your buoyancy down pretty good, and navigation as well. NAUI and the others normally spend a little more time on those in the basic class than PADI does. And you get more dives normally in your basic class with others besides PADI.

By now, I am sure you are equal to other divers from NAUI, SSI, YMCA, etc.

Since you're still alive and diving, then PADI must have worked out for you. The risk is mostly during the first 10 dives with a PADI cert. Congrats, you made it!

 

[Hoomi]

Whether the total cost for "equivalent" training is comparable from, say, thirty years ago to today or not, one other thing to consider on the modern system is that the cost ends up divided.

We could debate the wisdom of the idea, but from a marketing strategy, it makes good sense. People that wouldn't spend, say, $1500 in one sum for training might be happy to spend $2000 for five or six courses that accomplish the same training they would have gotten for $1500.

Add to that the factor of the percentage of people that will pay for the first one or two courses, and never go beyond that, plus the folks who would have paid for it either way. The training organizations not only get the total training costs from those who really want to learn it all, they also get the training money from those who might spend $300 - $500 for one or two courses, but would never have spent the $1500 - $2000 for the whole enchilada.

That is not to argue that the modern system is better. I'm just commenting on the business aspect that drives some of these changes.

I wonder, seriously and not confrontationally, what might be done to promote positive changes in the training programs of outfits such as PADI and SSI. If there are truly improvements (or, perhaps more accurately, restorations) of training that would produce better, safer, divers, then it seems it would behoove all concerned to implement them.

 

[Thalassamania]

The problem is that until you've done the five or six classes, and spent the $1,500 to $2,000 dollars, you are a clear and present danger to yourself and others. But nobody tells you that, they make believe that you are fully trained and ready and able to dive, with minimal risk, under conditions that are the same as those you were trained in. That is until something that you were not trained to handle (e.g., regulator coming out of the mouthpiece) or never really got (e.g., air sharing) comes your way. Then your survival is just a matter of chance.

 

[String]

I believe that most of the deco accidents are due to deco on the fly, which is strictly a GUE issue.

Rubbish. Firstly GUE/DOTF divers make up a tiny tiny percentage of divers and a tiny tiny percentage of bends. Most deco accidents according to DAN,BSAC,DDRC are with divers trained elsewhere. In fact a large % of them are "undeserved hits" where divers where within tables

NAUI uses RGBM and everyone else uses V-Planner (by and large).

Again complete rubbish. Most agencies dont recommend one model over another. Its for the diver to choose. Some use VPM(-B/E) where as a lot more use Buhlmann with gradient factors. V-planner is just a software program. It is NOT a decompression model.

 

[String]

The risk is mostly during the first 10 dives with a PADI cert.

And your proof for that particular statement is where exactly?

 

[Thalassamania]

And your proof for that particular statement is where exactly?

In his head?