Dumbing down of scuba certification courses (PADI) - what have we missed?

[The Chairman]

Earlier in the thread people commented that they had learned more through ScubaBoard discussions than other more traditional modes of learning.

I must insist that this is the altruistic reason why I compel ALL of my students to be a part of ScubaBoard!

 

[Thalassamania]

... A poorly designed rubric is poison--it can actually lower student performance. ...
The primary problem in poor rubric design comes from a fear of employing subjective judgment. To use technical assessment terms, writers of poor rubrics are so focused on reliability that they ignore validity. If in rubric design you truly focus on validity, you can create a rubric that is both valid and reliable. If instead you focus on reliability, you can create what I call the illusion of objectivity and not realize that your results do not in any way accurately reflect the actual quality of the student's work. You got a nice, clear number, but the number is meaningless.

Now we are on exactly the same page, on it pertains to most all of the diving e-learning that I've seen also. You see, my objection is not to the medium, it is to the validity of what is being taught, too much fluff and two little meat. I'm sure that there is a valid discussion to be had concerning what needs to be taught to an incoming diver, what can be put off to a later course and what is crap that can be ignored ... but unfortunately what I've seen in e-learning has not progressed much beyond Scott Hershey's "Demand Educator" videotapes of the 1980s in terms of content. E-learning is now used the same way as the VHS tapes were ... while the instructor was out on the boat with yesterday's viewers, today's viewers would sit in a room in the back of the dive shop (in this case I'm referencing a now defunct shop in Marathon) and watch the tapes with a counter clerk (DM) available if there were any questions. When the boat came back from the morning dive the viewers would have a few minutes to chat with the instructor while he filled tanks for the afternoon dive ... and so on.

 

[3000psi]

I feel this thread has been very informative on several levels and does help to show the varied cross section of opinions from across the country that only the internet can provide. From reading it I can see it is impossible for any agreement as everyone's point of reference is different. It is hard for someone not exposed to diving without BC's, no octos, no spg to understand what was needed to be safe in those days. Fast forward a decade or so and you have another generation that has a whole new perspective of what should be required for certification than those that may have been introduced to the sport in the last decade.

I will bet that in another ten years or so the next generation of divers introduced to the sport will vehemently defend the agencies for removing all the OOA practices as being just too risky for a skill that is so rare to ever be taught. Pool sessions will become what a few of only the hard core instructors require and they will be chastised for not seeing the light of modern day teaching methods. More families will be able to enjoy the sport since almost all of the time constraints have been removed by learning online and moving directly to open water when they arrive at the resort with the referral in hand. Mask clearing will be about the only complex skill and if you purchase a mask with a purge that will be waived.

If you think this is an unrealistic future your kidding yourself. As of now the lowest common denominator today to getting certification is an online course (open book test) for around $90 which most students will complete in less than two days with about 5- 10 hours of study. Then a referral that can be completed with an instructor signing off on about four open water dives. (does not even have to be the same instructor for each dive). Form is then returned and certification card is mailed back. No pool sessions even required. If your lucky a c-card in about a 10 hour course. ( 5 hours of study, 1 to take the test, and hopefully an hour on each check out dive)

This above method of certification will gradually grow in popularity to become the norm as each agency must embrace it or risk becoming obsolete.

 

[boulderjohn]

As of now the lowest common denominator today to getting certification is an online course (open book test) for around $90 which most students will complete in less than two days with about 5- 10 hours of study. Then a referral that can be completed with an instructor signing off on about four open water dives. (does not even have to be the same instructor for each dive). Form is then returned and certification card is mailed back. No pool sessions even required. If your lucky a c-card in about a 10 hour course. ( 5 hours of study, 1 to take the test, and hopefully an hour on each check out dive)

What agency does this?

 

[The Chairman]

If you think this is an unrealistic future your kidding yourself.

Yes, we get that you think the sky is falling. We still don't accept it as reality.

As of now the lowest common denominator today to getting certification is an online course (open book test) for around $90 which most students will complete in less than two days with about 5- 10 hours of study. Then a referral that can be completed with an instructor signing off on about four open water dives. (does not even have to be the same instructor for each dive). Form is then returned and certification card is mailed back. No pool sessions even required. If your lucky a c-card in about a 10 hour course. ( 5 hours of study, 1 to take the test, and hopefully an hour on each check out dive)

Wow, can you show us these divers? What agency? Please, this is just so preposterous and unfortunately, some people might actually buy into the fact that you think the sky is falling.

 

[boulderjohn]

Now we are on exactly the same page, on it pertains to most all of the diving e-learning that I've seen also. You see, my objection is not to the medium, it is to the validity of what is being taught, too much fluff and two little meat.

Actually, we re not on the same page. I was using validity in its technical assessment usage, saying as I did that too often in education (speaking in very general terms, not just to scuba) evaluators use assessment measures that are not valid measures of student performance in regard to the standards of the curriculum. That is, a poor assessment instrument could give a high score to a poor performance and a low score to a good performance. You are talking about the validity of the standards of the curriculum itself, which is a different matter.

but unfortunately what I've seen in e-learning has not progressed much beyond Scott Hershey's "Demand Educator" videotapes of the 1980s in terms of content. E-learning is now used the same way as the VHS tapes were ... .

I don't know what you've seen. Personally, I haven't seen the current crop of eLearning materials from any agency, although I am about to give one a very thorough examination. I only know the results. Every single instructor I know who has had students go through the program says they all know the material cold. In past posts I thought you said there as no problem with the mediium--it was the level of curricular expectations that was suspect, just as you say above. I understand your position. I think you've said it before elsewhere.

Here you seem to be saying something else, or am I confused again?

 

[Thalassamania]

Actually, we re not on the same page. I was using validity in its technical assessment usage, saying as I did that too often in education (speaking in very general terms, not just to scuba) evaluators use assessment measures that are not valid measures of student performance in regard to the standards of the curriculum. That is, a poor assessment instrument could give a high score to a poor performance and a low score to a good performance.

Sorry too many thoughts in one sentence. I agree with what your saying here and, additionally, I question the validity of the standards of the curriculum itself.

I don't know what you've seen. Personally, I haven't seen the current crop of eLearning materials from any agency, although I am about to give one a very thorough examination. I only know the results. Every single instructor I know who has had students go through the program says they all know the material cold. In past posts I thought you said there as no problem with the mediium--it was the level of curricular expectations that was suspect, just as you say above. I understand your position. I think you've said it before elsewhere.

I've looked at four: sdi/tdi, www.onlinescubalessons.com/corres.htm, PADI O/W and PADI A/O/W. Are there others?

Here you seem to be saying something else, or am I confused again?

I'm saying the same thing, weak content.

 

[3000psi]

Yes, we get that you think the sky is falling. We still don't accept it as reality. Wow, can you show us these divers? What agency? Please, this is just so preposterous and unfortunately, some people might actually buy into the fact that you think the sky is falling.

I hope I created the link correctly if not I'm sure someone can correct. If I misquoted anything from the FAQ in my post please advise. Just remember to keep an open mind. After all they "are proud to know that our scuba certification agency stands above the rest when it comes to the enjoyment, adventure, and fun of the scuba diver." And after all isn't this what learning is all about. Won't it be more fun to get a c- card without all that hassle and jumping through hoops it use to require.

Scuba Divers of America - SDA Scuba Certification Agency

 

[The Chairman]

And after all isn't this what learning is all about. Won't it be more fun to get a c- card without all that hassle and jumping through hoops it use to require.

Scuba Divers of America - SDA Scuba Certification Agency

How many students have you seen "get" this card? Most of it requires you to meet the "required dives" which would include pool and OW dives of the various agencies. But then, I think THIS is the guy that most of the agencies have disallowed their instructors to use. In fact, the RSTC has come out against this company.

It's a Red Herring at best.

Check out these threads on them: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...iving/242958-onlinescubalessons-com-scam.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ba...-aquatrophics-sda-david-holt.html#post4194869

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...ving/182651-catastrophic-aquastrophics-2.html

I am sure you can find more scams if you look hard enough! Thanks for playing! Don't forget your parting gifts!

 

[3000psi]

I'm not advocating using this agency, I think they are very misleading. Just that this is one example of someone seeing a way to introduce more to the sport much as PADI first did a couple of decades ago. Now almost every agency is doing it the same way.

It sounds like from the threads you cited several were against them because they did not think learning online was a good thing. Someone brought up the point that the other agencies did not like the possibility of losing customers and revenue to them. (Too many at the table already and not enough food to go around.)

I used them as an example as to what is next for the industry. Already according to the threads a few shops on scubaboard do recognize them. As they gain more acceptance or someone else takes their place this will gradually evolve into the status quo. How many instructors twenty five years ago thought the changes were "preposterous" and now you are defending the reasons for them. It sounds like as the industry slides this way you might join the ranks of enough is enough.

Maybe someday when I can arrange it I will take this course and document just how easy it is to get instructors to sign off with little if no pool work.