Dumb Question

[matt_unique]

While I respect the participants above, most of these responses are pretty much a bunch of horse ***** in my opinion.

First of all, many people confuse "pro" with "expert", these can DEFINITELY be mutually exclusive. I have several buddies who are instructors and DM's and they are top shelf. They don't have the common ego of "I am a pro, therefore I am an expert, bow to me, etc". To those who have not heard this before: "being an instructor/DM has nothing to do with how good a diver you are". That comes from experience in a given environment among other factors of course.

A PADI Master Diver certification does not mean you are an expert diver either, by any means. Like many things you can choose an easy path or really get something from it. I personally feel the requirements for all certifications beyond OW are WAY too low. I have written to PADI to express this as well. Back to point, I submit that a Master Diver is MUCH more likely to have more experience in multiple environments than a Dive Master. In most cases, a DM will be doing 30' shore dives assisting an instructor with brand new divers. This builds experience in that particular setting but it certainly does not produce a diver with skill extending beyond the scope of the most novice dives. This is not the case for all DM's of course but the reality is, the majority of students out there are in OW courses. Thus the majority of DM's will be working these courses. Some say Master Divers are 'merely those who purchased a card' but this is obviously not the case for everyone. As a Master Diver you could have chosen Deep, Night, Ice, etc. and have been exposed to a hell of a lot more challenging dive environments/conditions compared to a DM. A Master Diver could have chosen the easy path with "light" certifications like UW Naturalist, Photographer, etc. The requirements for Master Diver are earned by completing 5 specialties; the card/certification title itself is purchased. The bashers tend to explain this last part without recognizing the 5 courses required.

The point is, to say a Dive Master is in any way a better diver than a Master Diver by certification title alone is complete nonsense. It comes down to the individuals experience and path taken.

Here are requirements from the PADI website for both. Which is more likely, based on the minimum criteria, to have more experience with more environments? The DM is required to have 60 logged dives as I recall by the conclusion of the program.

PADI Master Diver
· PADI Open Water Diver certification (or qualifying certification from another organization)
· PADI Advanced Open Water Diver certification (or qualifying certification from another organization)
· PADI Rescue Diver certification (or qualifying certification from another organization)
· 50 logged dives
· Five PADI Specialty course certifications
· Minimum age: 15 years old (12 for Junior Master Scuba Diver)

Dive Master

· PADI Advanced Open Water Diver or qualifying certification from another training organization
· PADI Rescue Diver certification or qualifying certification from another training organization.
· Medical clearance signed by a physician
· 20 logged dives
· 18 years old


--Matt

 

[Damselfish]

As a Master Diver you could have chosen Deep, Night, Ice, etc. and have been exposed to a hell of a lot more challenging dive environments/conditions compared to a DM. A Master Diver could have chosen the easy path with "light" certifications like UW Naturalist, Photographer, etc. The requirements for Master Diver are earned by completing 5 specialties; the card/certification title itself is purchased. The bashers tend to explain this last part without recognizing the 5 courses required.
--Matt

You can't necessarily make assumptions based on the specialty courses taken either. My husband took PADI UW Photo, and it was an excellent class that I wouldn't at all define as the easy path. On the other hand, I took a PADI Night specialty that was junk.

 

[H2Andy]

The only dumb question is the one that isn't asked

obviously you haven't been around me much, have you?

 

[kaderdive]

Here is a thought!

As I read these posts I am reminded of a dive in WPB, Shark Canyon Reef, depth to 80 ft. On the boat was one instructer, 2 DM's 5 DM canidates and 4 divers not related to the class. The canidates were all diving with PST 100's but for one who was diving with a PST 80. During the dive the canidate with the PST 80 sucked the tank dry. OOA. One of the divers not related to the class saw the situation and offered his octo to the diver in peril. assisted them to the surface with his dive partner. The canidate while extreamly stresses and on the verge of panic was made positivly bouyant and assisted with a tank tow to the boat. The remaining class and last 2 divers boarded the boat. The class had a debreifing on the dive and what went wrong. While they all dicussed what they should have done, better buddy skills, better gas monitoring ect, no one thanked the diver or his buddt for the assist. The boat returned to the marina and while unboarding the canidates wife came to pick him up. She heard of the situation and asked " who was the diver who assisted you" he pointed to the divers who helped him. She walked over and thanked them both and kissed them both on the cheek. The reply to her " glad to help" and go on their way.

1 Instructer 2 DM's 5 canidates 4 unrelated divers ( Master Divers ALL )

Their certs: Padi ow/aow/night/deep/wreck/boat/drift/nav/nitrox/rescue/dan O2/EFR
TDI nitrox.


I truly wonder if these divers had taken the time to flash their master diver card, would the Dm cadidate have refused the assistance? Would his wife been less greatful?
So many pro's and pro wantbe's and it took a stupid lowlife good for nothing incompetent master diver to get it done. I am certified but don't wear it on my sleeve. I love diving, learning about diving, all areas of diving intrest me. I am a rec diver that follows the rules, watch my buddy like they are my better half, and respect those of like mind. Who am I you ask? Kaderdiver "Padi Master Diver" and I still feel the kiss on my cheek.

 

[aquaticaggie]

I took Master Diver through NAUI about a year ago. Does this make me an expert? No. I merely wanted to increase my knowledge for the sport and besides, the price was right. When I took that specific course (MD, nitrox, resue) i was comfortable and confident with my skills in the water. Personally I felt ready for something new. However something bothered me about this course, that is that there were divers in this course that had been introduced to the sport only 2-3 months prior. What really bothered me was a deep dive in a local lake to 120 feet. I don't have the ol' log book with me so i'll have to wing it. Thank goodness I had a good experianced buddy because there were "Master Divers" in training (MDIT) having real problems with establishing neutral bouancy, fins kicking up silt every were, a huge mess. Anywho the total time was about 25 min and at depth was about 5 minutes, the rest was travel time and cruising in the shallows. Then my buddy and I are at a ladder doing a 15 ft saftey stop when someone tugs on my octo. Another "MDIT" pegged out 0 on his tank and needed to leach off mine, but no problem but where was his buddy? Anywho I climbed out with like 1200 or 1300 close. Overall i was flabbergasted "Pseudo Experiance for sale!" should have been the name of the course. The moral of the story, forget the card and SEE the skills. Anyone can talk the talk but can you dive the dive?

(sorry for any spelling errors, rushing)

 

[ABQ]

The NAUI Masterdiver card does mean something (notice the "Required Dives"). Divemasters, as we all know, are invaluble to the industry.

If you want to become an instructor or work in the industry go for the Divemaster, if you want additional training, go for the Masterdiver. CAVEAT: IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE INSTRUCTOR, AND YOU GET OUT OF IT WHAT YOU PUT IN:

--------------------

From Naui:

Master Scuba Diver

Gain the in-depth knowledge that will establish you as a recognized authority in your diving club or group. Hone your diving skills to the level of a professional NAUI Leader. Thrill to the adventure of open water dives in settings that will test your abilities to their limit while enhancing and expanding your diving capabilities. Then proudly wear the most coveted and respected patch in recreational diving - that of the NAUI Master Scuba Diver.

OVERVIEW

The course is an continuing education certification course for divers who wish to increase their understanding and enjoyment of diving. Emphasis is on student participation and practical application of knowledge in open water after a classroom discussion of subjects. This course is an excellent progression toward NAUI Leadership roles.

Some subject areas are a review and expansion of material from previous courses. Each subject area is a progression in study not a definitive study in the particular diving activity. However, instructors will specify performance objectives for related course diving activities, for example, during a navigation dive the student will swim a reciprocal course to within 10 feet (3 m) of its origin.

The course may be divided and taught in sections with the student’s Diving/Training Log being signed off for each activity until all requirements are met.

Upon successful completion of this course, graduates are considered competent to engage in open water diving activities without supervision, provided the diving activities and the areas dived approximate those of training.

OPEN WATER DIVES

A minimum of eight open water dives is required. A maximum of three dives per day shall be applied toward course requirements. No more than one skin dive may count toward the eight dive minimum.

Required Dives

Emergency procedures and rescue
Deep/simulated decompression diving
Limited visibility or night diving
Underwater navigation
Search and recovery – light salvage

Elective Dives

Skin diving
Review of basic scuba skills
Environmental study or survey
Air consumption (practical application)
Boat diving
Shore diving
Hunting and collecting
Special interest

PREREQUISITES FOR ENTERING THE COURSE
Age: Minimum is 15 years.

Diver Certification. NAUI advanced certification or the equivalent is required. The instructor is to ensure adequate student knowledge and capability before any open water training and shall use skill or other evaluations to do so.
Equipment. Students shall furnish and be responsible for the care and maintenance of their own diving equipment. The instructor shall initially assist the student in checking all student gear to insure it is adequate and in proper working order.