DIR- Generic dual bladder wings...

[ABK]

Sorry, GUE isn't a training agency?

Not solely.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Sorry, GUE isn't a training agency?

GUE refers to that facet as "Education." They espouse three facets, as @ABK noted.

 

[doctormike]

Not solely.

Right, but it IS a training agency, which is my point. So if this was a GUE forum, then you could just post GUE training documents as a sticky or something and say that the question should be addressed to the course directors.

But since it's a DIR forum, there isn't a standardized canon to refer to. That was what I was trying to say.

 

[ABK]

Right, but it IS a training agency, which is my point. So if this was a GUE forum, then you could just post GUE training documents as a sticky or something and say that the question should be addressed to the course directors.

But since it's a DIR forum, there isn't a standardized canon to refer to. That was what I was trying to say.

Agreed.

 

[Adobo]

I can accept if anyone who has no idea on the concept of DIR/GUE training.
But the person who raised the question had done 4 courses. Surely he/she should had asked the question in the beginning. I had read the manual of F-course yrs ago and there is clear explanation on double wing and bungee.

I thought the term DIR is obsolete.

Dude, relax. Someone has a question as to why, what's wrong with asking? There are a slew of reasons why he/she might not know the answer or don't remember even though they have taken 4 classes.

If you want to push people out of this sub-forum, why not focus your energies on the ones who keep insisting that the non-DIR answer is the right answer to give when questions are asked here?

 

[Adobo]

Maybe this is my ignorance, so educate me. I consider myself to be DIR observant (or at least, Hogarthian) on OC gear, but I never trained with GUE. And I have issues with that agency that I won't bring up here.

From what I understand, DIR is more of a philosophy of diving, while GUE is a training agency. So for the purposes of what is acceptable in this forum, I think that it's a problem if we elide the difference between the two.

My daughter started diving recently. Of course, I outfitted her with the usual stuff. The only thing that is different for her is that she is on a 40" hose on her primary reg. Even with that, I think it is not necessarily un-DIR. I kind of felt like teaching her how to manage a longhose this early in her diving might be much. Anyway, when we dive, mostly in Hawaii so far, she is basically on "trust me" dives. I mean, she can donate gas if needed but I suspect she is not yet capable of planning and executing something like shore dives from beginning to end. And she surely does not yet have the instinct to see the beginnings of a fuster cluck before it snowballs. She was actually pissed at me after one dive when I saw another diver struggling and intervened. My daughter thought it was the DM's job to do that and that, as usual, "dad is sticking his nose in other people's business."

Without the mentality, the gear is just gear. In fact, It might even be argued, what is the point of a longhose unless you are team oriented? Or maybe to put it a different way, it is entirely possible that, depending on how you approach diving, DIR gear might actually be the wrong configuration.

Anyway, none of that is a critique of you or how you dive, I am just reacting to the notion of DIR compliant as it relates to gear.

 

[Adobo]

Dry suits aren’t a requirement for technical diving in GUE. Only with steel tanks or if you can’t swim up double 80s.
I’m not fighting or challenging answers. I was simply questioning a piece of our own dogma that had admittedly not made much sense to me. I liked the answer that isn’t about an additional failure point (as was my assumption) it’s more about how the failure would be managed in a dual wing that’s problematic.
In the courses I’ve done, it’s totally possible this particular question was talked about at some point but probably not an in-depth discussion.
What I don’t understand is why some people have an issue with a person asking a question about DIR philosophy on a DIR sub forum.

I have about 30% retention rate on any given discussion. It is what it is. Compound that with the fact that the last GUE class I took was over 10 years ago I think. Plus, even when I was my super active days, I only did about 40 dives/year excluding vacation dives and cave dives (which actually count as vacation dives I guess).

There are people in this sub forum diving hundreds of dives a year. Why not take advantage of that knowledge? Seems stupid to me.

 

[Centrals]

To get the perspective of others in the community maybe?

I guess forgive me for not yet having heard an explanation that completely sold me?
I didn’t know 4 courses meant you’re no longer supposed to have questions. And that if you do have a question you MUST ask an instructor instead of getting multiple points of view on a DIR sub forum.

https://www.gue.com/files/Standards_and_Procedures/GUE-Standards-v9.1.pdf

Appendix A

 

[Centrals]

I wish.

GUE History: Towards A New and Unique Future (2004)

Here in this 2004 white paper, Jablonski presents the rationale, controversy, and evolution of the DIR system, discusses the rise of alternative DIR groups and how they differ from GUE, and charts out a new direction for the organization, all of which makes for fascinating reading for diving...

gue.com

Interesting read

Interview with Bill "Hogarth" Main

Bill “Hogarth” Main is the co-founder of the Woodville Karst Plain Project (WKPP) deep cave diving team, a world record breaking cave explorer, and godfather of tech and cave diving minimalism. With an energy that belies his 64 years, Bill Main climbed out of his car to greet me, looking every...

xray-mag.com

 

[Vicko]

While never asking questions and not adapting gear to real world needs might be a GUE dogma, the rest of us normal folks don't have that character flaw.