DSS vs. Oxycheq (Wings only)

[Lukas]

Ok, I really don't want to start a heated debate about oxycheq vs dss, because both companies are simply amazing and feature some really high quality products. The question I have is regarding wings only, and while I am hoping for everyone to come up with good arguments, I also hope that we can all stay civil here. So Christmas is coming up and lots of people are looking at different wings to get (I know I am at least) and one thing I can't really make up my mind on is if I should get a DSS Torus wing or an oxycheq wing. I'm not really sure what all the oxycheq wings are, since I've seen threads where Patrick talked about his extreme series and a couple other wings I haven't seen on the website, but I have heard that they are really, really tough wings. Now I dive wrecks, so thoughness is of course an issue, the wing should also be compatible with the DSS BP so I know that excludes the mach V. I know the Torus wings aren't made of paper either, but I'd like to know everyone's opinion of what they think the best wing would be, or just which one THEY like more.

 

[*Floater*]

I think Oxycheq Razor = Standard for single wings. The Mach V works with the DSS plate if you use an STA. Same thing with their other wings. The cam strap windows on the Razors (and Sig Series I presume) do not line up perfectly with the cam strap slots on the DSS plate (see pic). They are further apart on the wing than the plate. Now I suppose you could still use the Razors and Sig Series wings without the STA on a DSS plate, but the middle of the wing might get crunched up slightly, which I don't think would be a problem, I just wanted to make a note of it so you know ahead of time, you can see what I'm talking about from the pic. I've only used the wing with an STA.

I've used both the LCD 30 and Razor 30 wings, and I prefer the latter for most of my diving because it's a donut and single-layer (or bladderless) whereas the LCD 30 was a horseshoe wing of double-bladder design. Double-bladder wings (LCD, Torus, Sig Series, Mach V) are tougher, but for most of my single-tank diving I don't need the added toughness so then I prefer the cleaner feeling of the single-layer wings.

If I wanted a tough wing then I'd go with the Mach V. The Torus 26 looks like a fine wing too, but I prefer to have a zipper just in case and I don't like that the bottom of the Torus is stitched together in the middle (though Tobin had his reasons for doing so). OTOH, the Torus doesn't require an STA with the DSS plate, so that's a bonus for those who don't like STA's.

 

[cool_hardware52]

The cam strap windows on the Razors (and Sig Series I presume) do not line up perfectly with the cam strap slots on the DSS plate (see pic). They are wider on the wing than the plate.

Having the slits in the wing further apart than the slots in the plate is no problem, the center panel of the wing will simply "ride" a little closer to the tank, remember the tank is ~7-8 wide.

Ever seen how far apart the slits are in a DR wing? How far apart are camband slots in a DR plate? Go take a look. How do you imagine they make it work? The wing slits are ~6 inches apart, and the plate slots are ~2 inches apart.

I have to really question whether or not you have ever even tried lacing up this combo before declaring it a problem.

Spacing top to bottom is a concern, but width simply is not.

The Torus 26 looks like a fine wing too, but I prefer to have a zipper just in case and I don't like that the bottom of the Torus is stitched together in the middle (though Tobin had his reasons for doing so).

Floater, have you seen a Torus? Have you had your hands on one of our single tank Torus wings? What stitching are you talking about? We weld an extra feature in the lower arc of the wing to prevent the lower arc from fully inflating, for very good reason, but there is no stitching in the lower arc.

If you are going to post with authority on goods it would help to actually have the facts.


Tobin

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Some quick thoughts... don't hold me to 'em... I might change my mind given a little more thought.

First...

If you already have a DSS plate, then why not get a DSS wing. Doing so would allow you all the benefits of the DSS system. You could pick from the LCD or the Torus... I'm sure that Tobin would help you figure out which would be best.

The Mach V WILL work with a DSS plate. I don't know where you got the idea that they are incompatable. I have both and they do just fine together. This wing is SEXY. I don't think that you should rule out this wing... not yet. It's just too good not to consider.

If you are looking for an indestructable wing for wreck diving, then I think you have to consider the Extreme Series. But Patrick has warned that this wing is more than the average diver will need... that it is for EXTREME diving... it will not be cheap. And if you are wreck diving wouldn't you want a doubles wing anyway?

The Razor series is a wing that is often overlooked. It is a great wing and, as a single layer wing, offers some very nice advantages. It is relatively inexpensive, very streamlined and packs small. Don't be fooled... a single layer wing like the Razor is plenty tough for most of the diving we do. I have single layer wings (different brand) that are more than five years old. They have seen a lot of action and are still going strong.

The Sig series... again... a super wing. Maybe not as cutting edge as the Mach V but this wing is hard to beat in terms of durability and functionality. If you are looking for a classic double layer, oval design, single cylinder wing... this is it.

Gotta run... more later...

 

[Adobo]

Try talking to Tobin on the phone. I found the experience to be a lot like getting cavities worked on by your dentist.

He's got really cool stuff though. Kind of like the soup nazi in Sienfeld, I guess you just gotta deal with it so you can eat some world class soup.

Edit: Before I get flamed, lemme be clear, I am not calling Tobin a Nazi. Far from it. Just saying that he has a very strong personality.

Edit: Oh yeah, I currently dive an oxycheq sig series doubles wing. I haven't used any other ones so I guess that's the only one I could vote for.

 

[Rainer]

This is a rather silly poll. It might as well ask "which of these few wings do you own". I have the DSS Torus, and while I like it a lot, I haven't tried a single other wing listed.

 

[*Floater*]

Having the slits in the wing further apart than the slots in the plate is no problem, the center panel of the wing will simply "ride" a little closer to the tank, remember the tank is ~7-8 wide.

Ever seen how far apart the slits are in a DR wing? How far apart are camband slots in a DR plate? Go take a look. How do you imagine they make it work? The wing slits are ~6 inches apart, and the plate slots are ~2 inches apart.

I have to really question whether or not you have ever even tried lacing up this combo before declaring it a problem.

I did not declare it a problem. From my post (emphasis added):

They are wider on the wing than the plate. Now I suppose you could still use the Razors and Sig Series wings without the STA on a DSS plate, but the middle of the wing might get crunched up slightly, which I don't think would be a problem, I just wanted to make a note of it so you know ahead of time, you can see what I'm talking about from the pic. I've only used the wing with an STA.

Moving on...

Floater, have you seen a Torus? Have you had your hands on one of our single tank Torus wings? What stitching are you talking about? We weld an extra feature in the lower arc of the wing to prevent the lower arc from fully inflating, for very good reason, but there is no stitching in the lower arc.

If you are going to post with authority on goods it would help to actually have the facts.


Tobin

Okay Tobin, it's welded instead of stitched. That's what I meant, I think people who looked at the pics of your Torus wings knew what I was referring to. Whether this extra feature on the lower arc was achieved by welding or stitching was not the point, but yes I should have been careful in my word choice.

And yes, I know your reason for the feature since I asked you about it before. The reason was so that there wouldn't be too much rear lift if someone is being towed on the surface with the wing full, right? And that's a fine, though not a concern for me. My reason for not preferring the welding is that I'd rather have the extra lift in the rear just in case I need it. I think we both agree that whether this feature is there or not does not affect the performance of the wing during normal diving (underwater at least) since there's generally no air in the lower arc anyway.

And no, I have not held the Torus 26 or Mach V 30, but I've seen the pics and read the discussion about them so I have my opinion based on that.

 

[SkiDiver]

And yes, I know your reason for the feature since I asked you about it before. The reason was so that there wouldn't be too much rear lift if someone is being towed on the surface with the wing full, right? And that's a fine, though not a concern for me. My reason for not preferring the welding is that I'd rather have the extra lift in the rear just in case I need it. I think we both agree that whether this feature is there or not does not affect the performance of the wing during normal diving (underwater at least) since there's generally no air in the lower arc anyway.

I thought the reason was so that the wing didn't push too much against the diver's butt when inflated. Or am I remembering wrong?

 

[cool_hardware52]

I did not declare it a problem.

A Picture paints a thousand words. The width of the slits in the wing are a complete non issue, not even worth mentioning. It has ZERO effect on how the gear mounts. I can even now anticipate the paniced emails "my wing slots are a 1/4 wider than the slots in my plate" all because of a non issue.

And no, I have not held the Torus 26 or Mach V 30, but I've seen the pics and read the discussion about them so I have my opinion based on that.

You haven't used, held or seen first hand either wing, but based on what you read here you are ready to render an opinion. Exactly how would one know that from your first post?

Tobin

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I have a DSS plate with an Oxycheq Standard series wing on it. Works fine.

Cheng has a DSS plate with an Oxycheq Sig series wing on it. That works fine too.

Please God ... can we make it stop now?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)