Drysuit wear and tear in MX caves

[berndo]

I wish you all the joy in the world being the only person in the area (unless there is another tourist or two who really wanted to pack one into their luggage, too, because I can't think of a single local who uses one) arguing with the weight of a crushed neoprene suit in the middle of the Yucatan summer.

Have you ever been to Spain or the south of France in summer? Sounds like you haven't. It's like 105F/40C or more in summer and you're in a valley with light lime stone surfaces around you... it's like being in a open air oven on hot days. (That's way I try not to go there in summer).

I'm not saying not to use a trilam suit, I'm saying the arguments aginst crush neos are largely bs and come from people who never used a decent crush neo suit. Have you used a crush neo suit before?

 

[eelpout]

I agree that a Trilaminate suit would work great because they weigh less, they dry faster, thus they are easier to repair holes with and they cost less. I have had 40+ years of diving in a drysuit. Living in Minnesota and working for a dive store got me into the Old Poseidon Unsuit back in 79. When DUI came into the our market around 81-82 I got their top of the line CF200 (Crushed Neoprene) self donning suit. I ended up getting rid of it because I was not a DUI dealer when I started my store in 1985. My next suit wast a Viking Combat Diver for about 8 years, then I got a DUI Shoulder Entry CF200 and my present suit which I have had since 2008 ins a DUI TLS 350.

For a fact, the Crushed neoprene suits are heavy, specially when they are wet. It takes a long time for them to dry. One thing that a crushed neoprene is great for is if you gain weight it still works and they last forever. That shoulder entry suit is still being used by the third owner to this day. Trilaminate suits do not last as long.

 

[oya]

Have you ever been to Spain or the south of France in summer?

Have you used a crush neo suit before?

No.

Yes.

But I do live and work as a diver in Mexico. And, since the question was about drysuit usage in Mexico I felt equipped to answer.

Edited to add: 105F/40C in the summer? That's cute. That counts as a cold snap here.

 

[berndo]

But I do live and work as a diver in Mexico. And, since the question was about drysuit usage in Mexico I felt equipped to answer.

Edited to add: 105F/40C in the summer? That's cute. That counts as a cold snap here.

Even if it was true that 105F isn't hot in Mx, your temperature argument makes little sense.

What's better? Putting on thinner or thicker undergarment before getting into a drysuit in hot weather? What crush neo suit have you used and how long did that one last?

 

[Kendall Raine]

I dive with a wetsuit in MX, but will be getting a drysuit eventually as my dives get longer.

Drysuits were rare in MX caves 20 years ago but are now everywhere. Not really sure why. The depths are sufficiently shallow that a hooded 8/7 mm wet suit should keep you warm for 3-4 hours at least-particularly if you're swimming. The only time I ever got cold diving wet in MX (n=~500 dives) was on a four hour r/t scooter dive from Dos to the Pit with an excursion to 240'. It was the deep portion that got me cold. Those dives involved a lot of humping gear down the steps at Dos so dehydration could have played a part, too.

Typical depths in MX caves are 25-65' (rarely deeper than 100') and a lot of the best stuff is shallow, anyway. Most of the previous generation of explorers (Robbie, Steve, Bil) dove wet almost exclusively.

The potential wear and tear on the dry suit just seems unnecessary (to me at least) from a thermal protection standpoint-more so if you're grinding.

Florida and Abaco (and elsewhere) are deeper and colder so thermal issues are a bigger concern.

 

[Underwater Tourist]

Drysuits were rare in MX caves 20 years ago but are now everywhere. Not really sure why. The depths are sufficiently shallow that a hooded 8/7 mm wet suit should keep you warm for 3-4 hours at least-particularly if you're swimming. The only time I ever got cold diving wet in MX (n=~500 dives) was on a four hour r/t scooter dive from Dos to the Pit with an excursion to 240'. It was the deep portion that got me cold. Those dives involved a lot of humping gear down the steps at Dos so dehydration could have played a part, too.

Typical depths in MX caves are 25-65' (rarely deeper than 100') and a lot of the best stuff is shallow, anyway. Most of the previous generation of explorers (Robbie, Steve, Bil) dove wet almost exclusively.

The potential wear and tear on the dry suit just seems unnecessary (to me at least) from a thermal protection standpoint-more so if you're grinding.

Florida and Abaco (and elsewhere) are deeper and colder so thermal issues are a bigger concern.

I dive a well fitted 5mil + 3/4mil jacket with a hood and i feel great for 3h dives (haven’t had longer ones yet)

But my trips are usually short and I get 3-4 diving days so the body doesn’t get tired

For longer trips that I will hopefully be doing with more diving days, I don’t want to do 2.5-3h dives always wet

 

[oya]

Drysuits were rare in MX caves 20 years ago but are now everywhere. Not really sure why. The depths are sufficiently shallow that a hooded 8/7 mm wet suit should keep you warm for 3-4 hours at least-particularly if you're swimming. The only time I ever got cold diving wet in MX (n=~500 dives) was on a four hour r/t scooter dive from Dos to the Pit with an excursion to 240'. It was the deep portion that got me cold. Those dives involved a lot of humping gear down the steps at Dos so dehydration could have played a part, too.

Typical depths in MX caves are 25-65' (rarely deeper than 100') and a lot of the best stuff is shallow, anyway. Most of the previous generation of explorers (Robbie, Steve, Bil) dove wet almost exclusively.

The potential wear and tear on the dry suit just seems unnecessary (to me at least) from a thermal protection standpoint-more so if you're grinding.

Florida and Abaco (and elsewhere) are deeper and colder so thermal issues are a bigger concern.

You actually answer your own question.

If I scroll back through my computers I'm guessing the average depths I'd see most frequently hover around 30'/10m. Shallow = less gas volume consumed with each breath = more bottom time.

With an average RMV of around .5-.75 that translates to around 45-60 minutes of cave penetration or a 90-120 minute single dive. Add a single stage and 3 hours is an easy run-time for most.

Do that twice a day for a week. Yeah, it can be done in a wetsuit, but EVERYONE in a wetsuit is shivering by the end of the week.

The vast majority of local pros wear a drysuit because they're neck-deep in 77 degree water all day every day for weeks on end.

 

[berndo]

Drysuits were rare in MX caves 20 years ago but are now everywhere. Not really sure why.

People weren't as wimpy then...

 

[rddvet]

Drysuits were rare in MX caves 20 years ago but are now everywhere. Not really sure why. The depths are sufficiently shallow that a hooded 8/7 mm wet suit should keep you warm for 3-4 hours at least-particularly if you're swimming. The only time I ever got cold diving wet in MX (n=~500 dives) was on a four hour r/t scooter dive from Dos to the Pit with an excursion to 240'. It was the deep portion that got me cold. Those dives involved a lot of humping gear down the steps at Dos so dehydration could have played a part, too.

Typical depths in MX caves are 25-65' (rarely deeper than 100') and a lot of the best stuff is shallow, anyway. Most of the previous generation of explorers (Robbie, Steve, Bil) dove wet almost exclusively.

The potential wear and tear on the dry suit just seems unnecessary (to me at least) from a thermal protection standpoint-more so if you're grinding.

Florida and Abaco (and elsewhere) are deeper and colder so thermal issues are a bigger concern.

That is solely your opinion with no metrics to go by. Are you mordbidly obese or extremely muscular, are you a slow or fast swimmer, what'd you eat that day.....etc. There are a million personal factors you have to calculate into what someone wants or has to wear to stay warm on a dive. You can do long dives in a westuit and not freeze, that's great for you but means nothing to me. If I put on a 7mil wetsuit first off I'm already hating life because it's uncomfortable. But after about 30 minutes in mexico temp water I'm freezing. 25 years ago I'd do that in a bathing suit. The more I dive, the older I get, the more easily cold I get in the water. Just like all of the other people that you're not sure why wear drysuits, it's what makes me most comfortable in those conditions. There's no what's better or worse, it's what is good for you. At the end of the day so many people are now wearing drysuits down there because they're more easily attainable, there are more affordable options, and people stopped lying to themselves that they're not hypothermic after a 4 hour dive. The laws of science prove that if I do a 4 hour dive in a drysuit I will be warmer because I have less convective heat loss than the same dive in a wetsuit. If you're able to do that dive and not have a loss or slowing of reflexes from the cold, then dive a wetsuit. But most people can't and therefore it's often safer to wear drysuit. With the advent of more and more rebreather divers we're also seeing the average diver in the water longer than they used to be.

But to the OP's original question: tons of divers that live and dive every day in mexico are fine with trilam suits. Sure a neoprene suit is more rugged, but there are downsides. It's all what you choose is right for you. But the concern a trilam will lead to leaks isn't a big worry.

You actually answer your own question.

If I scroll back through my computers I'm guessing the average depths I'd see most frequently hover around 30'/10m. Shallow = less gas volume consumed with each breath = more bottom time.

With an average RMV of around .5-.75 that translates to around 45-60 minutes of cave penetration or a 90-120 minute single dive. Add a single stage and 3 hours is an easy run-time for most.

Do that twice a day for a week. Yeah, it can be done in a wetsuit, but EVERYONE in a wetsuit is shivering by the end of the week.

The vast majority of local pros wear a drysuit because they're neck-deep in 77 degree water all day every day for weeks on end.

 

[crofrog]

They do need more space but depending on the type of suit there is maybe only 1 kg in difference... since you have to bring more or thicker undergarment for a trilam, it's pretty much a wash, IMHO.
The Rofos 450 I have doesn't pack much smaller than most 2mm neos, I reckon. A Rofos 360 type suit would pack smaller though.

From a space standpoint I agree. Not so much from a weight standpoint my DUI CF200 weighs 6.8kg (15lb) and on the other end of the spectrum my Avatar weighs 3.2kg (7lb). The difference in undergarment weights for the same water temperature is about 1.3kg (3lbs.)

I've always been torn between my trilam and neoprene suits though. I really enjoy diving the neoprene.