Drysuit transitioning blues - a lesson in humility

[Storker]

I had the same, "who needs a class mentality"

I still have that mentality :cool2: Heck, I certified dry. I've got about fifty DS dives already. Albeit in a compressed neoprene DS, not in that trilam suit. I'm sure we'll get along nicely after a couple more dives. As we all know, many great relationships start out a little bumpy until you get to know each other

I am really a fan of gaiters to mitigate the air to the feet.

I never lost my fins, but I felt like they were close a few times during my first few dives. These were all shallow(less than 50ft) in pool like conditions so I wasn't too concerned. To fix this, I added the triangular fin keepers. I know you're supposed to wear them over the fins, but I actually used them just for the boots.

[...]

To achieve proper trim I actually add a tiny bit of air to the legs. They don't enter the boots thanks to the fin keepers. I'm not talking bulging bubbled legs, but a tiny bit helps. Even intentionally going feet up and inflating in the pool I've yet to run into issues with fins popping off.

I've already been thinking of gaiters, but they're kind of expensive. I'd like to avoid the ankle weights, they seem like a gear solution to a skills problem to me. And since it was not so much floaty feet as the boots sliding off that was the problem, I've already been thinking of those fin keepers. I just wasn't sure they'd work with a DS and ankle strap fins. Now I'm really going to buy a pair before my next dive with Ms. Waterproof and put them on before putting on my fins. Thanks for the info!

Your post was pretty detailed, so I'm going to assume you missed (or were unaware of) the following:
Burp your suit - squat in your suit to force as much air as possible before donning you BC. Perhaps you trapped some air with the BC.

I did, as I've always been doing with my neoprene DS. I also made sure to vent the suit after entering and before submerging, to get out the last air. But it's entirely possible I didn't do a good enough job with it.

 

[undrwater]

Fin keepers, ankle weights, and gaiters are an equipment solution, yes. Sometimes they are called for. If you've got multiple things you are trying to troubleshoot, they help to rule out (or at least control for) some of the problems. If you were nearby, I'd give you my gaiters that you could pass them on when you no longer need them.

If you burped your suit, and still experienced issues with an uncontrollable bubble, I begin to think there may be a problem with venting. It shouldn't really be that difficult to vent or manage the bubble (especially considering your experience), so maybe the thicker undergarments are hindering the vent??

 

[violamama]

Thanks for posting!
I'd like to ask a newbie question:
Do you think the learning curve would be easier in something like a Whites with the inner bag and stretchy outer layer? I've read that it's slightly easier and I'm trying to decide between that and something like what you've recently acquired.

I think it's funny how our egos get bruised by not magically knowing things. Even for me, with few real dive skills, I can feel myself resisting admitting that I don't know something or that I'm uncomfortable let alone wrong. It's actually kind of encouraging to see an experienced diver analyze the learning process, including the ego hit when things are harder than anticipated. Helps me keep things in perspective and remember that one of my favorite things about diving is the ability to continually learn.

 

[jcaplins]

* Note: I don't want to come off as an expert, Just want to share my opinion.

Are you using you BCD and drysuit to maintain buoyancy?
There are 2 schools of thought for this. 1 is use them both, the other is to use your drysuit only (BCD is for the surface and as a backup)

Unless you are diving with a heavy rig, and stage bottles, and have shed off all the lead, I find using the drysuit only method to be the best.
Basically... Do an end of dive weight check with no air in the BCD, and only enough air in the drysuit to take the squeeze off. You will only have slightly more air in the suit at the beginning of the dive and just enough to take the squeeze off at the end.

If over weighted, then the bubble is too much to control in the suit. Having air in the BCD creates another system to manage and just makes things more complicated.

I find that if I'm perfectly weighted, then with just enough air to take the squeeze off, my buoyancy is perfect (OK, maybe not perfect, I'm not that good), and my wing is completely empty during the entire dive.

 

[Agility]

make sure your rock boots are done up properly, that will prevent too much air entering the drysocks. I had the feeling I was losing my boots on the first dives as I did not dare pulling them too tight. Now I dive thin skiing socks under the Bare socks and by pulling the laces of my rockboots tight this creates a constant volume space.

 

[Storker]

Do you think the learning curve would be easier in something like a Whites with the inner bag and stretchy outer layer? I've read that it's slightly easier and I'm trying to decide between that and something like what you've recently acquired.

I haven't tried the Whites, but from your description I gather it's basically the same suit that was sold branded as "Scubapro Fusion" around here a few years ago. I looked at a used Fusion when my son had outgrown his suit and was on a budget. Long story short: I didn't like it. At all. The construction seemed way too complex, and it was a pain in the nether region of the back to don and doff. And from what I hear, used Fusions are very hard to sell around here (drysuit country), so I guess I'm not the only one.

For me right now with what I know, it's one of three alternatives: Compressed neoprene with rockboots, compressed neoprene with integrated boots or trilam/membrane with soft boots. IME a good-fitting, not too tight neoprene suit has a very small and easily handled bubble (I had anticipated a somewhat bigger challenge handling the bubble in a non-elastic trilam suit, so it was no surprise I struggled a bit). Pro rockboots: very snug fit on the feet, hardly any air in the feet at all. Con: well, I've mentioned the problem of just tight enough lacing. And the ones I've seen often have small feet, limiting the thickness (or number of pairs) of socks. Pro integrated boots: often a bit bigger, with more room for socks, keeping your feet warm(er). Con: more room for air, more floaty feet, risk of boots slipping off.

The dive centers in our part of the world often use neoprene suits as OW course rental suits, and after experiencing the difference between a snug neoprene DS and a baggy trilam suit, I can understand that. Not one of those I certified with had a runaway ascent in those suits. Besides, they're fairly cheap, also on the used marked, and since most new divers around here - including those who quit diving - end up with a neoprene suit, that's the type we see most of in the classifieds. IMO the biggest downside of the neoprene suits is that they get somewhat tight in the winter, when we try to stuff enough undergarments inside an already snug suit. But they're really easy to dive.

Right now, I've got my new trilam that I'm pretty sure I'll learn to love after a few more humiliating incidents, and my son has a compressed neoprene suit with integrated boots that was bought used. Very lightly used (the seller claimed one dive), seals in excellent conditions and zipper nice and tight, less than 50% of price as new. And neither of us wanted a Fusion after looking at the used one.

I assume that others may have differing opinions, though

 

[rhwestfall]

I've already been thinking of gaiters, but they're kind of expensive.

DIY something with some stretchy elastic (2") webbing and some velcro. Call them gaiters, and save yourself a fortune....

 

[Imla]

Storker, you never state HOW much lead you are using... I suspect you are actually overweighted...
To try the easy things first

These little babies will help with keeping fins on Amazon.com: Trident Fin Keepers/Grippers for full foot Scuba and Snorkeling Fins: Sports & Outdoors

Next time you go diving, go into the water, no gear, just to "cool down" first. Make sure you either keep an open valve, or just burp the suit in the water. (Make sure no water gets in of course) Go back up again... And put rig on.

When you are diving, and when horizontal, try not to bend your knees so much so that the feet are higher than your tank. As one of our local instructors would say "Svanka førr faen", in plain english, sway your back, tighten that A S S, lift those thighs, and strech you feet.

Make sure you vent, stabilize, breathe in, ascend slightly, stabilize, vent a again... "Lather, rinse repeat".
Vent often, more often than you might think... but do bcd and suit every other time. That way pressure has time to build, and venting gets easier without losing control.
Take your time. Feel the bubble move towards your vent, and slow down... Give it time to vent.

 

[Storker]

Are you using you BCD and drysuit to maintain buoyancy?

Usually, I add suit air for comfort and warmth, and BCD air for buoyancy. Wintertime, I don't need much air in my BCD if I want to keep reasonably warm. On this dive, I was using neither (could hardly keep squeeze at bay), I believe I was at least a couple of kilos underweighted My problem was a combination of not enough weight, a larger and slower bubble to manage and comfortably fitting boots, made of neoprene that had some stretch which allowed them to inflate "just enough" when I got my feet to high.

I find that if I'm perfectly weighted, then with just enough air to take the squeeze off, my buoyancy is perfect (OK, maybe not perfect, I'm not that good), and my wing is completely empty during the entire dive.

Which is why I like to overweight with a couple of kilos in the winter. That gives me a little extra insulation, and I can easily do 40-50 minute dives in 4C water without getting too cold (it's normally just my fingers that get really cold, my core is fairly nice and toasty... well almost, at least ), and have BCD air to dump quickly if I fail to anticipate buoyancy swings.

---------- Post added April 7th, 2014 at 09:21 PM ----------

Storker, you never state HOW much lead you are using... I suspect you are actually overweighted...

I have a hard time believing that since I've been both too heavy and too light before, but I won't say flat out that you're wrong Anyhow, time (and a few more dives) will tell if I'm right or if you're right

These little babies will help with keeping fins on Amazon.com: Trident Fin Keepers/Grippers for full foot Scuba and Snorkeling Fins: Sports & Outdoors

They're on the budget already

Next time you go diving, go into the water, no gear, just to "cool down" first. Make sure you either keep an open valve, or just burp the suit in the water. (Make sure no water gets in of course) Go back up again... And put rig on.

Good tip, I'll try that (I usually do it after donning the rig). Of course, that means the rest of the party will have to wait and I'll the be last to submerge, but that's not supposed to be my problem, right?

When you are diving, and when horizontal, try not to bend your knees so much so that the feet are higher than your tank. As one of our local instructors would say "Svanka førr faen", in plain english, sway your back, tighten that A S S, lift those thighs, and strech you feet.

Make sure you vent, stabilize, breathe in, ascend slightly, stabilize, vent a again... "Lather, rinse repeat".
Vent often, more often than you might think... but do bcd and suit every other time. That way pressure has time to build, and venting gets easier without losing control.
Take your time. Feel the bubble move towards your vent, and slow down... Give it time to vent.

Good points. I know them in theory, but I'm not that good at using the knowledge in practice. Always good to be reminded of stuff I don't put enough emphasis on.

 

[Redshift]

I find some of the comments a bit interesting... mentions of dry suit certification, not dumping the air properly, being overweight... when the OP has been certified with dry suit and has been diving dry. What changed was the suit... I assume he knows how to dump air... He seems to be too light from the start. When one has trouble descending in the beginning of the dive, it will be very hard to control buoyancy once the cylinder starts to get empty. He said there was no more air to dump and still was going up. It's natural. I think the problem here was not recognizing in the beginning that it would be a problem later. The other problem was the boot size, which by itself doesn't cause ascents but makes the dive more complicated.