Dry Suits

[nitroxbabe]

Well, whatever works for you. Don't work for me.

The way I see it: an exposure suit is designed to keep you warm. A BC is designed to control buoyancy. I use the suit to keep me warm, and the BC to control my buoyancy. When I first got my drysuit, I tried to use it as a buoyancy device and ended up feet first on the surface (aka the Michelan Man Syndrome), flailing around like an idiot. I quit using the suit that way, and have not had a repeat of this problem.

Pardon my ignorance, but I'm confused: in my PADI drysuit course I was taught to use my BC, and not the suit, for buoyancy. I was under the perhaps mistaken impression that PADI generally had little or no leeway in course content. Is it optional to teach either way to students???

BTW I did the layering thing and much prefer the undies: there's just one item to put on (and take off!) and they've served me pretty well down to 41F. If I'm too hot, I let some cold water into my hood or simply leave the undies partially unzipped under my drysuit.

For women, the fewer clothes we need to take off to tinkle, the better. You guys just have no idea....

SubMariner once bubbled...


WRONG.

I have been drysuit diving for 10 years. Not only was I taught to use the suit for buoyancy control u/w, but it is also the method that I teach as a PADI Instructor.

There are pros & cons to either method of buoyancy control. In the end it all comes down to:

1) Training.
2) Experience/Practice.
3) Personal Preference.

There is no "one right way".

seakdivers

Isn't the DUI 350TLS with rock boots a blast? I love the way the Rock boots lace up so that they act like gaitors & eliminate the need for ankle wts. No nasty floaty feet or air shift!

BTW, ladies, you don't necessarily need to invest in expensive udergarments. In cold water I start my layering with those poly-lycra blend skiers use under their ski outfits (wicks away moisture) and biking tights (same type of material) then add on heavy sweats. And of course in warmer water, I just wear a long sleeved T shirt (or that poly-lycra shirt) and the biking tights.

Of course, no drysuit ensemble would be complete without the obligatory pair of thick socks!

IOW, I find that with layering I can more easily adapt to the various water temps, rather than having to invest in expensive woolies (etc).

JMHO,

~SubMariner~

 

[Snowbear]

- I got the undergarment. Polar fleece is good, but thinsulate is better IMHO. And like nitroxbabe said - only 1 thing to get off when you're in a hurry to pee
I do use a thin polypro layer underneath it so I have to wash the undies less. I also add a fleece layer of expedition underwear underneath in winter if I got chilled on the first dive, though I haven't had to do that since I discovered Argon! And yes, thick socks are mandatory.

Nitroxbabe - I was taught by PADI and was taught to use the suit for bouyancy. I CAN do it, but it is a little trickier to keep the air where you want it to control trim. I don't use training wheels... uhh... I mean ankle weights, though I did at first. Some people I dive with, even very experienced divers, feel they can't dive without them. I'm glad I graduated from them, though

 

[nitroxbabe]

LOL the men just don't know, do they?

Hmmm... interesting about the suit as a buoyancy device. We were not taught it that way. I'm sure I could learn to do it (and I do use the suit buoyancy to some extent of course: get the squeeze off, THEN adjust the BC if needed) but I'm happy with my current methods.

LOL "training wheels". I usually have not used them, but did borrow a set on my last Lake Superior expedition. I actually really liked them and plan to buy a pair! It was so dang easy to change my position in the water with 'em on... I guess I'm going to digress... oh well...

Let's hear about diving in Alaska! I'm sure you've got lots of great stories...

Snowbear once bubbled...
- I got the undergarment. Polar fleece is good, but thinsulate is better IMHO. And like nitroxbabe said - only 1 thing to get off when you're in a hurry to pee
I do use a thin polypro layer underneath it so I have to wash the undies less. I also add a fleece layer of expedition underwear underneath in winter if I got chilled on the first dive, though I haven't had to do that since I discovered Argon! And yes, thick socks are mandatory.

Nitroxbabe - I was taught by PADI and was taught to use the suit for bouyancy. I CAN do it, but it is a little trickier to keep the air where you want it to control trim. I don't use training wheels... uhh... I mean ankle weights, though I did at first. Some people I dive with, even very experienced divers, feel they can't dive without them. I'm glad I graduated from them, though

 

[seakdivers]

Let's hear about diving in Alaska! I'm sure you've got lots of great stories...

Somehow I bet that Snowbear's stories are a lot more interesting than mine - I am quite a bit further south than her, so our conditions aren't as extreme. (Although I have come out of the water covered in ice before!)


Submariner - yes I love the rock boots! I do find that it's harder to take my fins off, but I'm sure I will get used to it soon.

 

[Snowbear]

seakdivers once bubbled...


Somehow I bet that Snowbear's stories are a lot more interesting than mine - I am quite a bit further south than her, so our conditions aren't as extreme. (Although I have come out of the water covered in ice before!)

LOL! but thanks for the vote of confidence! Most of my stories have been told in various versions by others on the board. Summertime diving here is not so different from the PNW.
These Arctic H2O's have TONS of life in them. I like it when the Sea Lions mess with me. There's a couple of dive sites we frequent near a rookery where they haul out. It's pretty much guaranteed a group of them will check us out sometime during the dive. If it's just females, they'll tend to try to play with us. If there's a male in the group, they tend to check us out and leave - I have NO problem with that since the males can get to +/-2000# and can get aggresive!
There are a lot of dive sites where there's lots of cold water flow and nutrients, so invertebrate life gets REALLY big. We don't get the colorful photosynthetic coral of the tropics though, 'cause the plankton, krill and various stuff that makes the water so nutrient rich tends to block the effective light. Dive lights are helpful even during daylight, good viz dives 'cause they help bring out the colors as well as you get to see all the stuff hiding in the cracks, crevices and swim-throughs.
I've seen some cool stuff like a huge meadow of very large plumose anemones, beds of sea pens and sea whips, BIG cloud sponges with lots of crinoids perched on them, entire rocks walls covered with so much (and diverse) life that you can't see rock, a pissed off (or scared pee-less?) lingcod with an octopus clamped over one gill and reaching around for the other one, a lion's mane jellyfish being eaten by an anemone, purple and red mottled sun stars 3' across with about 30 legs, 30 little barnacles on a rock all scooping the water in unison, so many brittle stars (or little 4" flounder) on the bottom scurrying along that it looks like the bottom's alive, wolf eel or lingcod hiding in a crack, 16" long big fat spiny urchins, crevice covered with encrusting sponges, giant barnacle scooping the water, fire scallops doing the pacman imitation when they sense your movement (then they close up and sink back down when you shine the light on them - pretty cute actually) about a dozen different species of seriously colorful rockfish (each species a different color pattern), red salmon doing their spawning "dance" and holy guacamole - just all those awesome things that keep us all diving as often as possible! One thing I've noticed - there's a lot of really awesome stuff below 80'. Yeah, there's cool stuff above that, but a lot of the big, different, unusual and interesting stuff is deeper. I've been to 182' and there's still life below me! Gotta get trimix training!
Stories - OK, I'll give you my first ever "Oh ****, I f'ed up this time" story - On the return swim from an awesome deep dive (planned for 150', did 148') I got caught in a current once that pulled me between some pinacles, separated me from my buddy (who went AROUND said pinacles like he was supposed to) in <15' of viz in 60' of water. Somehow didn't hook up on the other side, got separated from the wall AND the pinacles, disoriented, 8 min of deco obligation remaining. OK - Stop, Breath, Think, Act. Got plenty of air, with redundancy. I know buddy is plenty capable of taking care of himself, and will not risk injury and blow his deco to look for me so I calmed my self down (i.e. got my heart and respiratory rates back down!), took a compass heading and finned in the direction the boat should be (against the current caused by the out-going tide), finished my deco and surfaced. I was ~ 200 yrds out into the gulf of Alaska and the boat was around the corner in the cove with the tide pulling me out. ~2' swells. Oh, well - I flipped on my back and started finning. I was making VERY slow headway and was mentally settled in for a couple hour swim. Then I heard a motor!!! I looked and it was the zodiac chase boat! WooHoo! My buddy had surfaced about the same time I had (same deco obligation) and let the boat capt know I wasn't with him. The boat guy headed out in the most logical direction and found me right away. I was glad for the ride back and he was glad he didn't have to muster a major missing diver search!
OK, I've yapped enough. seakdivers - your turn!

 

[SubMariner]

The way I see it: an exposure suit is designed to keep you warm. A BC is designed to control buoyancy. I use the suit to keep me warm, and the BC to control my buoyancy. When I first got my drysuit, I tried to use it as a buoyancy device and ended up feet first on the surface (aka the Michelan Man Syndrome), flailing around like an idiot. I quit using the suit that way, and have not had a repeat of this problem.

That's why I said it was a matter of training, practice, and personal preference. As long as it's safe does it matter what method anyone uses?

Pardon my ignorance, but I'm confused: in my PADI drysuit course I was taught to use my BC, and not the suit, for buoyancy. I was under the perhaps mistaken impression that PADI generally had little or no leeway in course content. Is it optional to teach either way to students???

The PADI Drysuit Specialty teaches a student to use the suit for buoyancy control u/w. This is also the method we use to teach the Instructor Specialty (Pearce is a CD, I'm an IDCS). For example, here is info straight from the Instructor Outline for drysuit:

4. Adjusting your buoyancy underwater.
a) Underwater, you add air or argon only to the suit. Do not use your BCD.
1. This avoids a suit squeeze (severe pinching due to compression as you descend).
2. You're not having to control two systems -- adding or releasing gas as you change depth.
3. It keeps the proper amount of air/argon in your undergarment for insulation.

If your Instructor was teaching the other method, it was not a PADI course.

BTW I did the layering thing and much prefer the undies: there's just one item to put on (and take off!) and they've served me pretty well down to 41F. If I'm too hot, I let some cold water into my hood or simply leave the undies partially unzipped under my drysuit.

I guess my biggest problem with a single layer was having to peel the WHOLE THING down in order to.. well.. you know. Not very comfortable in less-than-optimal conditions (cold or no facilities).

BTW, I don't think we should be calling ankle wts "training wheels". With some suits (like full 1/4" neoprene") they are almost a necessity. I think that too should be put into the "personal preference" column.

DSDO,

~SubMariner~

 

[sealkie]

I got a DUI FLX50/50 custom measurements a few months back - I gotto say I`m loving it ! My old membrane Aquion suit just died as hopeless death of many leaks !

 

[nitroxbabe]

I hope you're not getting your drysuit undies in a twist!
That's what I said, whatever works for you, it doesn't work for me!

Thanks for the info. Interesting. No, I wasn't taught to use the suit for buoyancy.

And yes, I ankle weights are definately personal preference. And I'm preferring to order some.

SubMariner once bubbled...


That's why I said it was a matter of training, practice, and personal preference. As long as it's safe does it matter what method anyone uses?



The PADI Drysuit Specialty teaches a student to use the suit for buoyancy control u/w. This is also the method we use to teach the Instructor Specialty (Pearce is a CD, I'm an IDCS). For example, here is info straight from the Instructor Outline for drysuit:

4. Adjusting your buoyancy underwater.
a) Underwater, you add air or argon only to the suit. Do not use your BCD.
1. This avoids a suit squeeze (severe pinching due to compression as you descend).
2. You're not having to control two systems -- adding or releasing gas as you change depth.
3. It keeps the proper amount of air/argon in your undergarment for insulation.

If your Instructor was teaching the other method, it was not a PADI course.



I guess my biggest problem with a single layer was having to peel the WHOLE THING down in order to.. well.. you know. Not very comfortable in less-than-optimal conditions (cold or no facilities).

BTW, I don't think we should be calling ankle wts "training wheels". With some suits (like full 1/4" neoprene") they are almost a necessity. I think that too should be put into the "personal preference" column.

DSDO,

~SubMariner~

 

[knives]

nitroxbabe once bubbled...
Early this season I bought a 3mm crushed neoprene dry suit (Dive Concepts Neo) and I love it! Got it for around $900 - not bad.
Yes I too will soon have a Diving concepts suit. I have tried a friends on and it was awesome , can't wait to be warm on a dive Lake Ont. is about 45-50 now and I have little cold tolerance, with my new suit I plan to dive all winter...can't wait to get it!!

 

[nitroxbabe]

I'm sure you'll love it! I've done down to 41F in mine (with the quilted undies) and it does pretty darn good. I've gotten a bit chilled on repetitive dives but hey, that's to be expected.

Do you do Lake Ontario in the winter ??? (Does weather generally permit??)

knives once bubbled...

nitroxbabe once bubbled...
Early this season I bought a 3mm crushed neoprene dry suit (Dive Concepts Neo) and I love it! Got it for around $900 - not bad.
Yes I too will soon have a Diving concepts suit. I have tried a friends on and it was awesome , can't wait to be warm on a dive Lake Ont. is about 45-50 now and I have little cold tolerance, with my new suit I plan to dive all winter...can't wait to get it!!