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Post deleted.
Comment no longer pertinent since the thread was hacked up.
SA
Comment no longer pertinent since the thread was hacked up.
SA
Dry suits for all occasions
- Thread starter Braunbehrens
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Paul,
To characterize or to define a thing not by what it is or what it does, but by how it looks, is to confuse its essence with its cosmetic appearance.
Technical diving is as technical diving does. Plenty of 'technical' diving globally is being done by serious, well-informed technical divers in wetsuits. They seldom argue the point on the boards, however.
The points you have made regarding hypothermia, exposure, and the benefits of drysuits are all correct. I apologize for having fun with you.
Rethink your assumptions, however, and the corollary to your sweeping generalization: ...that 'if the diver is wearing a wetsuit it cannot therefore (by someone's definition) be a technical dive'. The fact that Rick was not wearing a drysuit does not make his recent dive any less technical for it. It is counter-intuitive to claim so.
There are some 'DIR Tec Divers' who are unlikely to perceive the world beyond their boundaries. I don't think you, however, are one of them.
Regards,
Doc
To characterize or to define a thing not by what it is or what it does, but by how it looks, is to confuse its essence with its cosmetic appearance.
Technical diving is as technical diving does. Plenty of 'technical' diving globally is being done by serious, well-informed technical divers in wetsuits. They seldom argue the point on the boards, however.
The points you have made regarding hypothermia, exposure, and the benefits of drysuits are all correct. I apologize for having fun with you.
Rethink your assumptions, however, and the corollary to your sweeping generalization: ...that 'if the diver is wearing a wetsuit it cannot therefore (by someone's definition) be a technical dive'. The fact that Rick was not wearing a drysuit does not make his recent dive any less technical for it. It is counter-intuitive to claim so.
There are some 'DIR Tec Divers' who are unlikely to perceive the world beyond their boundaries. I don't think you, however, are one of them.
Regards,
Doc
DIR Tec Diver
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I have been asked and I agree completely to take a less aggressive approach to the posts and information. No problemo. Lets try to be professional and not bash each other that won't lead to anything constructive.
The idea behind my post is this.
A drysuit offers a lot more benefits than a wet suit does, even if you can quite comfortably do decompression and whatever in a wetsuit.
Dry suits offer better buoyancy (not to mention redundant buoyancy), better balance and overall better protection from the elements. This comfort zone allows or helps you to incorporate some better decompression techniques such as decompressing horizontally not veritcally. Something many people (not all) struggle with in a wet suit.
The offset and changes in buoyancy with a wetsuit can alter and affect the dive in many ways. The compression at depth and the resulting insulation drop can have very negative effects such as hypothermia which can be deadly and also lead to serious problems with decompression.
Ok the list of comparisons goes on and on, but you get the general idea. Even in temperatures I mentioned before being 40 celcius and even sometimes higer (Cyprus, Egypt, Turkey) I wear my dry suit. Usually I even keep a thinsulate 200g undergarment on as well, and for waters 20 degrees and lower I wear my 400g) If I am not scootering then I can get by with a thin fleece, but I really prefer the proper thinsulate whole body suits, as do most all the divers I know.
So in short even though a lot of people use and are comfortable with wet suits, there are options and reasons why people should seriously consider and think about the usage of dry suits. When I first started using them, I did not like them, found them to be a bit cumbersome, but after about 10 dives, I got the hang of it, and had some great DIR divers explain how to properly use a dry suit, and my diving experiences have been safe, comfortable and enjoybable ever since.
Now was that a bit better???
The idea behind my post is this.
A drysuit offers a lot more benefits than a wet suit does, even if you can quite comfortably do decompression and whatever in a wetsuit.
Dry suits offer better buoyancy (not to mention redundant buoyancy), better balance and overall better protection from the elements. This comfort zone allows or helps you to incorporate some better decompression techniques such as decompressing horizontally not veritcally. Something many people (not all) struggle with in a wet suit.
The offset and changes in buoyancy with a wetsuit can alter and affect the dive in many ways. The compression at depth and the resulting insulation drop can have very negative effects such as hypothermia which can be deadly and also lead to serious problems with decompression.
Ok the list of comparisons goes on and on, but you get the general idea. Even in temperatures I mentioned before being 40 celcius and even sometimes higer (Cyprus, Egypt, Turkey) I wear my dry suit. Usually I even keep a thinsulate 200g undergarment on as well, and for waters 20 degrees and lower I wear my 400g) If I am not scootering then I can get by with a thin fleece, but I really prefer the proper thinsulate whole body suits, as do most all the divers I know.
So in short even though a lot of people use and are comfortable with wet suits, there are options and reasons why people should seriously consider and think about the usage of dry suits. When I first started using them, I did not like them, found them to be a bit cumbersome, but after about 10 dives, I got the hang of it, and had some great DIR divers explain how to properly use a dry suit, and my diving experiences have been safe, comfortable and enjoybable ever since.
Now was that a bit better???
Wearing a wetsuit impacts your ability to ascend in a horizontal configuration?
I think you're slinging smack.
But that's just my professional opinion.
DIR Tec Diver
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I said most not all have trouble doing this. All you have to do is look around on most dives at all the people swimming up, hanging on to the line etc.
I, probably you and many others have no problems doing this, and good for you and everyone else, horizontal ascents and horizontal decompression is the right way to do it
To think that I or others are so simple minded not to be open, flexible etc. is just not true.
We all start somewhere, and no one is DIR or even a good diver for quite some time. Throught experience, open mindedness and willingness to change we evolve into competent divers.
The benefits of dry suits remain unchanged, the issues with wet suits remain unchanged. What you choose to do with it is your choice and up to you.
I, probably you and many others have no problems doing this, and good for you and everyone else, horizontal ascents and horizontal decompression is the right way to do it
To think that I or others are so simple minded not to be open, flexible etc. is just not true.
We all start somewhere, and no one is DIR or even a good diver for quite some time. Throught experience, open mindedness and willingness to change we evolve into competent divers.
The benefits of dry suits remain unchanged, the issues with wet suits remain unchanged. What you choose to do with it is your choice and up to you.
have nothing to do with body position in the water.
If anything, its harder to maintain good trim in a drysuit, as you have a bolus of air that can shift around and play hell with your trim.
A wetsuit doesn't have this handicap.
That claim is a load of horse manure.
If anything, its harder to maintain good trim in a drysuit, as you have a bolus of air that can shift around and play hell with your trim.
A wetsuit doesn't have this handicap.
That claim is a load of horse manure.
Oh, why not...
What we see here is a bunch of backward logic. The decision has been made that a dry suit is the end-all and be-all of exposure suits, a component of the "Right" system for all diving - and now the justification for it must be manufactured to fit scenarios where it's as useful as (with apologies to Tommy Franks) an accordian.
E. itajara
What we see here is a bunch of backward logic. The decision has been made that a dry suit is the end-all and be-all of exposure suits, a component of the "Right" system for all diving - and now the justification for it must be manufactured to fit scenarios where it's as useful as (with apologies to Tommy Franks) an accordian.
E. itajara
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Braunbehrens
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If you dive your drysuit snug there is no bolus of air going around. There is no question that a drysuit is superior to a wetsuit, but there can be some few scenarios where a wetsuit may be used.
However, someone diving in California will want a drysuit soon enough. I dive in California almost exclusively, have done so for over 10 years, and have done it both wet and dry, so yes, I know what I'm talking about.
To dive comfortably in California you need a thick wetsuit, or a drysuit. Thick wetsuits are not any more comfortable then drysuits, are a pain to don and doff, and don't keep you warm once you are out of the water and in the wind. They also compress at depth, which will seriously screw with your buoyancy and could be quite dangerous.
I sure wish someone had told me when I had 40 dives to get a drysuit.
In terms of technical diving, I think the arguments have been made. In almost all circumstances a drysuit is mandatory. The few times that it isn't, you can still use it without a problem, and it will have some advantages. By keeping your rig the same, you have many advantages, so I would dive a drysuit in all circumstances.
As for the picture of MHK, come on guys! You've never done anything dumb in your life? That picture shows part of the history of DIR, but it is not the current accepted standard. MHK doesn't dive like that anymore....there must be a reason why.
However, someone diving in California will want a drysuit soon enough. I dive in California almost exclusively, have done so for over 10 years, and have done it both wet and dry, so yes, I know what I'm talking about.
To dive comfortably in California you need a thick wetsuit, or a drysuit. Thick wetsuits are not any more comfortable then drysuits, are a pain to don and doff, and don't keep you warm once you are out of the water and in the wind. They also compress at depth, which will seriously screw with your buoyancy and could be quite dangerous.
I sure wish someone had told me when I had 40 dives to get a drysuit.
In terms of technical diving, I think the arguments have been made. In almost all circumstances a drysuit is mandatory. The few times that it isn't, you can still use it without a problem, and it will have some advantages. By keeping your rig the same, you have many advantages, so I would dive a drysuit in all circumstances.
As for the picture of MHK, come on guys! You've never done anything dumb in your life? That picture shows part of the history of DIR, but it is not the current accepted standard. MHK doesn't dive like that anymore....there must be a reason why.
"Superior?" "almost all circumstances ... mandatory?"
What planet are you guys on? Dry suits are a pain in the tail. I use mine when I need it, but not when I don't.
The first two popular tech diving sites that pop to mind are Bikini Atoll and Truck Lagoon... nary a dry suit in sight!
You are right about one thing... for diving off the California coast a dry suit is the suit of choice. I would even say it's "mandatory" for me... but not for anyone who doesn't want to use one.
E. itajara
Former FLL Now MSP Diver
Contributor
Hmmm, OK here's a more recent picture of someone wearing a wetsuit who if you check out the website shouldn't be wearing one according to you.
And I'm not picking on Mike - I think you should stop speaking for him. Here's a more recent picture and though I may be wrong as it's difficult to see, I don't see any dump valves on the sleeve or chest neoprene where one might expect to see them.
Doubles visible in both shots BTW.
Still think that wetsuits are a poor choice?
Marc
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