Dry suit and sinking feet

[RPanick]

I'm going to try that next time out, assuming it ever warms up.

 

[sambolino44]

A buddy of mine has a couple of small weights with clips that he can clip to D-rings on his shoulders. I don't like the way they dangle, but I've been thinking about maybe rigging some way of doing something similar with soft weights; velcro or something.

I have this fantasy of being able to adjust my weight so that my trim can be absolutely neutral. In other words, so I can effortlessly hold any attitude and not be constantly battling the tendency to flip over on my back. Logically it seems like a heavy backplate would make the problem worse, but a lot of things defy logic.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

 

[TSandM]

Sambolino, it's possible, because I've done it, both with my singles rig and with my double 85s. It just takes a bunch of fiddling with weight positioning, and a lot of time spent on correct trim.

 

[String]

If you've got room in the boots bigger bulkier socks will increase foot bouyancy

I found the opposite, less socks meant more of an air space so more buoyant feet.
More socks just reduced that space and my feet were heavier.

 

[spectrum]

Murray socks will be more crush resistant and retain buoyancy with less attention to air management in the feet.

Other than that I agree that its probably a light chest more than heavy feet. Moving lead should influence your trim.

I lost track of your cylinder selection but if you are diving an AL80 getting into steel would be very significant.

Pete

 

[dave4868]

I hadn't thought about increasing the underwear in my legs, that might work. Thanks, downside is more lead.

I guess I should have put new boots on rather than switching to socks and rock boots. Oh well, live and learn.

Shame I can't use my Henderson Hyperstretch boots (too small with dry suit sock), those things have so much buoyancy its not much of an issue. Maybe I can find someone in the area that stocks them in a larger size to see if they would be comfortable over my dry suit sock.

I love my DUI sock and Rockboot system.... I may be out of the mainstream on this, but, for warmth, I made sure I got them oversized by a full size larger than my shoe size.

As a result, I didn't experience a decrease in foot buoyancy, like you did.

You're exactly right that regular semi-rigid boots would hold more air and usually be more buoyant; they resist squeeze. They also don't have laces to tighten the air out of the boot.

After seeing a fellow diver complain of ice-cold feet because he had standard-sized sock/Rockboots, and preferring to be very warm, I went for oversized to allow more insulation and less constriction. As a result, they're very warm, but significantly more buoyant than standard size.

Getting back to your issue of sinking feet, I created the opposite buoyancy problem in my sock/Rockboot because, for the sake of warmth, I use two sock layers and I keep my Rockboot laces pretty loose, almost to the point where I could slip the boot off while laced. On top of that, I keep plenty of air in the feet for my long, cold dives. Ahhh, so nice and warm!

To address the resultant floaty feet, after having shifted other weight, I added the much-derided ankle weights, shamelessly, I readily admit.

I believe you said you use two pairs of insulating socks, but I'd suggest again that you loosen the laces of your Rockboots to allow more lofting and air in them.

That, and more leg insulation, will make a real difference in your buoyancy and trim and will solve your issue of sinking feet, I think.

You replied to Terry (Web Monkey):

Nice theory, but I'm not overweighted. The only bubble I, have its not that big is the one I put in my feet. My preferred diving I have no bubble, generally I hit neutral at the safety stop with no air in the BC. I only put enough air in the BC to compensate for the weight of the air in my tank when full.

Until I changed the boots I didn't have any problem at all. Likely its only a couple of pounds difference, but it keeps me from being perfectly trimmed and its annoying me.

This is why I was asking about your use of the bcd, how close you were to minimal weighting and if trim issues improved when the tank was near empty.

Apparently, many drysuit divers use the bcd for primary buoyancy control, but in your case, if you stopped using the bcd, you'd put that buoyancy into your drysuit where you could shift it around for better trim control.

Similarly, a little extra air (and lead) would give you additional trim leverage, provided the air went into the drysuit.

Some will say this is exactly what they want to avoid, namely the shifting of suit air, but I find it quite manageable. I can easily hold a neutral inverted vertical position in the water, such as when trying to set up a camera shot of some critter in a crevice. No problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevead
If you've got room in the boots bigger bulkier socks will increase foot bouyancy


I found the opposite, less socks meant more of an air space so more buoyant feet.
More socks just reduced that space and my feet were heavier.

Your socks must have been pretty dense! Mine are just a little bit of light material with lots of trapped air spaces!

The original poster has soft, flexible drysuit socks/Rockboots, and with those, compared to a semi-rigid boot, it may be more important to use foot insulation that maintains loft and trapped air. Rockboots are more prone to squeeze and movement of the air inside the sock.

The goal is create a stable "micro-climate", as they say, where the insulating air layer stays in place next to the skin. Even with a bootful of air, unless the sock does a good job of trapping a layer next to the skin, heat loss from conduction and convection will be significant.

My efforts to find wussy-level warmth led me to use a combination of two sock layers that were loose and relatively non-constricting and had the ability to maintain loft even when squeezed. That meant one of them was a firm knit wool sock that didn't crush easily. The other happens to be Weezle, which slows movement of the trapped air, I think. Combined with a generous amount of air, this arrangement keeps my feet fireplace-toasty for a long time!

It also cures "sinking feet", for sure!

Dave C

 

[CompuDude]

I think the last few posts may have nailed a good idea: Try some different socks. Try layer polypro liners with thick polarfleece (which should allow more air in), try knit wool socks and try Thor-Lo's. Socks are relatively cheap and it could be the right combination will solve the issue without needing to muck about with shifting (or adding) a bunch of lead.

 

[RPanick]

Socks I'm using are wool, two pair no matter what the temp. The Rock Boots aren't tight, just snug enough to keep them on. The boot size is one larger than my shoe size which works out about right with two pairs of socks, and the dry suit sock material. Not too tight, not too lose, just right.

I think it comes down to about the same amount of air I had in the original boots, the Rock Boots are just a little heavier.

BTW, thanks everyone for the ideas.

 

[paulwlee]

Apparently, many drysuit divers use the bcd for primary buoyancy control, but in your case, if you stopped using the bcd, you'd put that buoyancy into your drysuit where you could shift it around for better trim control.

Similarly, a little extra air (and lead) would give you additional trim leverage, provided the air went into the drysuit.

Some will say this is exactly what they want to avoid, namely the shifting of suit air, but I find it quite manageable.

If you read his post carefully, he has no problem maintaining trim using excess air in the suit. He only has a problem when the air comes out of his legs due to body position and he doesn't have the bubble any more. This is not a properly trimmed out setup, and he is trying to fix it.
More socks is a possible solution, (because you are adding a relatively fixed amount of loft there) but just adding air is not.

 

[dave4868]

If you read his post carefully, he has no problem maintaining trim using excess air in the suit. He only has a problem when the air comes out of his legs due to body position and he doesn't have the bubble any more. This is not a properly trimmed out setup, and he is trying to fix it.
More socks is a possible solution, (because you are adding a relatively fixed amount of loft there) but just adding air is not.

I see what you're saying, but you may have overlooked that I offered a similar solution (adding more leg insulation, since he's already using two pairs of socks). I probably buried my statement in excess verbiage.... a bad habit of mine.

I agree completely that using the loft of garments is probably the most desirable solution for the OP, since he also said he likes to go with minimal excess air in the suit and that he's already quite close to good trim (feeling like 2lbs negative on the feet).

Going even further, one could use more leg garments and even less "excess" suit air by running the suit with a lot of squeeze.

That would further reduce the changes in trim after being vertical.

There are lots of ways to approach it. Some more desirable than others.

Dave C