Drowning - Not for just in the water

[flareless]

Thanks for all the replies folks! Very interesting stuff.

SWJ, I'm glad to hear you're taking the Rescue Diver course. You'll really like it. I'm not kidding though - it's exhausting. We had the option to roll 2 day's dives into one and like IDIOTS we took it.

We did ours at a local quarry and the final part involved "Scenarios" where the instructors set up a nightmare and we had to act to resolve it. It included panicked divers, missing divers, divers in different states of mind and conciousness and even divers who were just in the water to make you think you've found the missing diver. After the scenario we were all wiped out physically as we had been "rescuing" people all day. As the last guy got his gear off the instructor (damn him to hell) said "Ok - for this next one....."

NEXT ONE!?!?!?! :11:

If you can do the physical stuff across 2 days I'd highly recommend it. Get lots of sleep the night before, tons of hydration, a light but fortifying breakfast and if you have a God, pray like hell that you have the strength to drive yourself home from the dive site

Good luck and thanks again to everyone for replying!

 

[rawls]

First of all...A BIG CONGRATULATIONS flareless on getting your Rescue cert. You may just have saved a life.

As was said, dry drowning is due to laryngospasm...the larynx spasms shut. When that happens, one hell of alot of chaos begins to occur in the circulatory system which leads to pulmonary edema...fluid in the lungs...in effect drowning....liquid interrupting the bodies ability to absorb oxygen.
With drownings there are many, many things going on in our bodies in response to fluid insults to our lungs (whether the insult is through the front door or through the back door) and we as rescue divers only need to understand this and that our responsibility is to provide oxygenation in whatever form (CPR if there is cardiovascular collapse), provide for normothermia and get the patient to medical care as soon as possible.
We do not need to think or give any consideration as to wheter it is a dry drowning, wet drowning, near drowning, etc...

This reminds me of all of the TV shows where someone is revived on a beach and coughs up a bunch of water, wakes up, sits up and everything is ok. Too bad that most people only know what they see on TV....Thank goodness you are ok. If they run the episode out a bit longer, you would see that same person say....I don't know what happened. They were doing fine....

Hopefully TSandM will pick up on your thread and provide some insight.....Again Congratulations!!!

 

[ScubaSarus]

Also after taliking with a good free diver, he explained that one can also be in danger from breath-hold practice in ones living room; and there are special apnia charts one is to follow to do so to avoid resporatory arrest.

 

[Gary D.]

I have never heard of the "Mamillian Effect" but what we deal with on a regular basis is the “Mammalian Diving Reflex”. Rather than getting long winded about it here is a link to an explanation of what it is. Mammalian diving reflex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don’t think it has any collation between a wet or dry drowning.

This will also explain why we set 70df as the line between cold and warm water.

Gary D.

 

[ruready7]

Another term associated with dry drowning is the triggering of the "Mamillian Effect", this protects organs from damage and usually occurs in colder water temps. This results in the best prognosis for a victim. Cold water is considered under 70 degrees farenheit and I am lucky to live in the area where we have medical staff trained for just this type of rescue. A local team revived a 10 year old after a 55 minute submersion under the ice, the first and longest which occurred about 15 years ago. I have personally brought up a 4 year old after 20 minutes bringing him back after substantial CPR. The doctors in my area due to several other successes now use this rule in determining death "They do NOT discontinue CPR on a cold body they warm the victim and continue life support until normal range is met" only then discontinuing life support.


Bottom line is life support should be attempted on any recoveries made before 90 minutes of submersion

TG

We have a saying in the medical community....they are not dead until they are warm and dead....when referring to possible cold water drowning....the cold temps decrease the oxygen demands of the tissues

 

[YellowfinKunkfish]

I think something similar happened to me during one of my first OW pool sessions. I was having trouble with mask removal and replace, so my instructor and I were working on it in the shallow end. I had removed my mask, got water up my nose, and started to panic. I was trying to calm down, and breathe, but I just kept getting more water in my nose, pretty soon, I couldn't even breathe. I tried as hard as I could to get a breath on my reg, and couldn't get any air! I finally stood up, spit out my reg, (and a bunch of water) and told her that something was wrong with my reg, I couldn't get any air. She looked at me like I had lost my mind, took a couple of breaths off my reg, and said it was fine. I didn't understand it, I had tried as hard as I could to suck air out of that reg, and it wasn't working. Never did figure it out, but maybe it was something like the subject for this thread?

 

[horsemen]

‘Dry drowning’ claims 10-year-old’s life - Health - MSNBC.com


is a story about dry drowning the other day on msn

 

[rongoodman]

The article seems to be confusing "dry drowning", usually associated with vocal cord spasm and minimal water in the lungs, with the after effects of near drowning. Water in the alveoli can interfere with the surfactant which keeps them normally expanded, leading to serious respiratory problems in the hours following the event.

 

[Bowler800]

I think the entire reason I try to read threads on this forum daily is to constantly learn something new. Thank you all to whom are departing with the knowledge they have gotten from education and experience!!

 

[freediver]

Congrats on the Rescue Diver accomplishment...might I also suggest taking a lifeguard training course to further your knowledge and skill level in the area of water safety/rescue. You will also learn the differences between active and passive drownings. Secondary drownings are a real concern for those who have had an active or passive drowning event as well as in-water seizures and ascent blackouts from freediving. If you're looking for some great reading material on drownings and especially the physiology of drowning, the best and most straightforward info I know of can be found in the YMCA "On the Guard" lifeguard training manual. Your local library should have a copy of the latest edition.