Drop your weights or not...

[boulderjohn]

Exactly, you shouldn't be thinking about dropping your weights for very long. Either you KNOW you don't need to ditch them or ..they are gone. I myself have never ditched a belt in 35 years of scuba diving, but it is important to NOT think of dropping lead as a LAST resort. It should be on the short list of potential responses..

.

I actually think we are more in agreement than is indicated. Dropping weights is a matter of personal judgment.

If it is not the last resort, though, can you tell me what is the last resort? PADI lists is as the last of 4 choices. What should come after that as a 5th choice?

 

[xyrandomyx]

I guess then, the question really is this: what constitutes an emergency worthy of dropping the weights?

Are you suggesting there is a peer pressure of some kind pushing divers to keep their weights when the emergency is dire enough to require their release?

Can you describe you vision of the dividing line between when you (using your personal judgment) would keep your weights and when you (using your own personal judgment) would release them in a heartbeat?

EDIT: What I guess I am really saying is that we agree that the weights should be dropped without hesitation when it is appropriate to drop the weights. What is not clear to me is when you think that moment has arrived.

I don't think it's so much 'peer pressure' as being keenly aware that dropping weights when it's not necessary would create more problems than it solves. I got the firm impression from OW course that it would be a bad idea to drop weights, make an uncontrolled ascent and put myself at risk for DCI if a CESA would have been sufficient. True, I think, but probably unhelpful for telling when a CESA would be sufficient.

 

[xyrandomyx]

I actually think we are more in agreement than is indicated. Dropping weights is a matter of personal judgment.

If it is not the last resort, though, can you tell me what is the last resort? PADI lists is as the last of 4 choices. What should come after that as a 5th choice?

dumpsterDiver is obviously the only person who can say what he meant, but I also thought while reading this thread that I should consider not thinking of dumping weights as a 'last resort', while still realising that there isn't really a 'resort' that comes after it.

I think I could probably explain best by stealing dumpsterDiver's words: it's the difference between

'Either you KNOW you don't need to ditch them or ..they are gone'

and

'either you KNOW you need to ditch your weights or you attempt a CESA'.

 

[boulderjohn]

I don't think it's so much 'peer pressure' as being keenly aware that dropping weights when it's not necessary would create more problems than it solves. I got the firm impression from OW course that it would be a bad idea to drop weights, make an uncontrolled ascent and put myself at risk for DCI if a CESA would have been sufficient. True, I think, but probably unhelpful for telling when a CESA would be sufficient.

I'm in agreement with you. It's a decision a diver makes in a tough situation. If a nice, controlled CESA is going to get you to the surface, which it should in almost any NDL situation, then dropping weights might be a mistake. If it is at all questionable that a CESA will get you to the surface, then those weights should go immediately.

I think the dividing line varies from diver to diver. I am pretty darn sure that I can do a CESA from a pretty significant depth under normal circumstances, so I won't be quick on the release. Someone else might be a lot quicker, and justifiably so.

I don't see what peer pressure has to do with it myself, and I am surprised it was raised as an issue.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I think peer pressure might be a considerable factor. You screw up on the anchor line at the surface in rough seas, you forgot to turn on your tank, you are over-exerted and you just took 2-3 half breaths of seawater.... No body wants to be the wuss who ditched his belt on the surface, but this sounds like a situation when you better make a decision FAST (get that snorkel to work or ditch the lead).

I've never ditched a belt, but I have found over 30 of them. Most were probably lost accidentally and I bet many of the divers were embarassed by loosing the belt. Loosing dive gear ain't what the cool kids do. There has got to be some peer pressure to not lose the belt.

Obviously people shouldn't be sheding lead like dandruff (especially if deep or people are below them) but I've seen a number of incidents where people should have dropped lead and didn't.

In fact, when I was a DM on a boat, I would have to commonly ask divers to remove their weight belt between dives. Often I might see a large man still wearing a 12 lb belt, dive boots and a bathing suit on the surface interval. When I would suggest that they might be more "comfortable" with the belt off, it would be obvious that they forgot they were wearing it.

I was always worried some fat, out of shape tourist would fall overboard when we were running and by the time they realized they were sinking, their ear drums would be crushed and they would be confused why kicking of their feet (in dive boots) wasn't getting them to the surface from 35 feet.

If people are stupid enough to forget they are walking around a boat with an anchor tied to their waist, I always wondered if they are smart enough to drop it in an emergency. The option of dropping lead needs to be TRAINED into divers so that it comes to mind quickly in an emergency.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I actually think we are more in agreement than is indicated. Dropping weights is a matter of personal judgment.

If it is not the last resort, though, can you tell me what is the last resort? PADI lists is as the last of 4 choices. What should come after that as a 5th choice?

Yeah, I guess it IS the last option (maybe number 5 is: ride a llift bag ).. I think my point should be that ditching should be considered SOON and if things are going down hill fast, it needs to be dropped BEFORE panic sets in and the diver becomes incapable of it.

A diver could go from Option A to option LAST pretty quick.... For example, in a real rescue on the surface, I am probably going to be ditching the victim's lead pretty damn quick.

Another situation, A diver is heading to the surface with zero air and they are trying to swim up, they are wearing little or no exposure suit, the BC is empty and they have an 8 lb belt. During the swim toward the surface they lose confidence that they are going to make it,,, I say drop the lead on ascent if you are at all worried and keep swimming (is that option 5)?

 

[boulderjohn]

A diver could go from Option A to option LAST pretty quick....

Sure thing. You should be able to make this decision without hesitation. This is not the time to be thinking, "Hmm. What are my options again?"

 

[Kingpatzer]

My comment to my students, which I often think I don't emphasize enough is that on the surface after/during an incident, you should do everything you can to ensure you remain positively buoyant. Underwater, if you have run out or low of air and think that you might not make it, then drop your weights without hesitation.

Now, that is advice to new divers. I spend far more time drilling them about watching their air than I spend talking about ditching weights. But a different thread in accidents and incidents brought to my attention that a lot of people wouldn't generally consider dropping their weights even during a rescue situation where the question should probably be asked.

I suspect that this is one of those "grey" areas where so much depends on individual confidence, experience and situational judgement that there is no good answer to "when" other than "when you need to." Unfortunately, some people are invariably going to wait until later than that, which is usually going to be too late.

 

[Frosty]

I have to admit this conversation was had before I purchased my BC and was the sole reason I went for weight integrated.That way I can dump half my weight and still have options