Dr. Bill in the LA Times, Good Job Bill!

[drbill]

Just read the article. I've seen what appears to be the same thing here off Catalina, although my observations are strictly anecdotal and have not been subjected to any rigorous scientific methods.

The comment by Hunter_ on that article was partially correct, but mostly wrong. He said that by the time a larger fish is taken, it has passed its genes on to the population by mating several times. True for many fish. However, what he didn't understand was that the largest fish (at least the females) have the greatest capacity to reproduce the population. One large sized female can produce 10-20X the eggs of a smaller female. As for the males, in some species the smaller males aren't given as much chance to mate as the dominant males (sheephead for example).

 

[Teamcasa]

Dave, you'd be surprised. For several fisheries (lingcod being one example), the recreational catch actually exceeds the commercial catch. This is largely a factor of the many recreational fishers out catching the fish.

Is it because they are a non-migratory species and are typically near shore and not easy to commercially fish for?

 

[White Knight]

drbill....Again, I appreciate where you are coming from and you probably have more of my support that you probably think. But regarding your comment, "can't argue with the stats for the species you have chose. Certainly it is the commercial catch for those species that overwhelms the recreational. It has to be looked at on a species by species basis" I take a slight issue to. Let's be sure you aren't being blind to the cause and affect of the ocean's destruction yourself. Consequently, I have taken into consideration your comments and I have chosen to report commercial fishing stats for fish that are both sought after by commercial fishermen and spear fishermen alike. So here it goes...total commercial catch for the following fish species caught in California waters for calendar year 2007: Rock Cod (all types) 1,345,637 lbs; California Halibut 389,312 lbs; Ling Cod 176,177 lbs; Flounder (all types)161,960 lbs; Sole (all types) 8,972,136 lbs; White Sea Bass 460,509 lbs; Kelp Bass (supposedly not caught commercially) 176,177 lbs; Tuna (all types) 2,255,841 lbs; Lobster 663,031lbs; Cabezon 56,063 lbs; Giant Sea Bass 7,952 lbs. Now, if I missed something that scuba divers and free divers catch, and commercial guys don’t, please let me know what it was? Although this might not represent the entire universe of targeted fish by spear fishing or rod and reel guys….but come on? No environmentalist sincerely suggests that scuba divers and free divers come anywhere near any of the above reported fish takes (reported by the CDFG) do they? If nothing else, quantify it for me? Considering destruction of habitat and depletion of fish stocks, what percentage should be assigned to commercial fishing? What percentage to spear fishing? What percentage to rod and reel? What percentage to pollution? What percentage to "other"? Come on environmentalists......don’t just make blanket “everybody is at fault” statements and let's all “as a consequence” close the ocean to any fishing by anybody for anything. Last time, our oceans have been, and are being, destroyed by commercial fishing. Spear fishing is so far back on the list that it just doesn’t even measure as a statistical meaningful number. In the scheme of things, spear fishing just doesn’t matter whether you “fix” it or not.

 

[drbill]

Is it because they are a non-migratory species and are typically near shore and not easy to commercially fish for?

Actually there are some scientific studies that suggest they may be migratory, but possibly only the females. I think the verdict is still uncertain though.

Lingcod will go to depths of 1,600 ft according to dr. Milton Love so they may be found pretty far away from shore.

In the past 14 million pounds of lingcod were taken a year off the coasts of Washington and British Columbia by commercial fishermen. The reason they aren't easy to catch now is they took a lot of them... and the trawl nets they used to catch them did a lot of habitat damage to the benthic environment.

 

[drbill]

WhiteKnight, I am not disagreeing with you. Certainly the commercial fishers contribute far more impact on many if not most of the species when compared to spearfishers and even rod-and-reel anglers. However, my example of game fish that are not taken commercially is highly relevant as well. Kelp bass are an incidental catch (bycatch) in some fisheries, but I'm sure recreational anglers take far more than that. My guess is that the same is true for sheephead, although the live fish trapping industy may be reversing that.

Of course one of the worst examples of commercial catch far exceeding recreational is for striped marlin, as my reference to the 10,000 carcasses on one factory ship alone indicates. I've never said (have I?) that the recreational catch outstrips the commercial as a total or for all species, but it does for a number of the ones that are extremely important in nearshore kelp forest communities. Most of the commercial fishers can't fish these shallow waters effectively.

 

[Divenomad]

Thanks Cody. You are probably referring to Dr. Bill Ballantine who I've had discussions with back in the early 1990's. The Goat Island Marimne Reserve was established in the mid 1970's and has indeed won the support of a number of fishers because they have seen it works. A link to their web site is:

Goat Island Marine Reserve

What aggravates me is that the organized elements in the fishing community are TOTALLY opposed to the very thing that may save their asses. They don't want ANY new reserves for the most part. There is no interest in compromise.

I'd like to call upon the wisdom of Solomon and take a sword, divide the California coastline 50/50 and THAT would be fair to both sides. Fat chance.

You'll be gratified to know that there are commercial small boat trawlers who advocate closing the salmon season here in Norcal in order to try to restore stocks. The ecological mechanisms are different, with rivers being the primary problem, but the principals of wise stewardship is the same.

I'm proud to know these fishers, and they are personally committed to sustainable fisheries practice, I know this because I know them, they are friends of mine.

Salmon Aid

Nomad

 

[drbill]

Agree with you Nomad. As my article said, I worked with the Salmon Trollers Association in Fort Bragg back in the early 80's and they had the long-term interests of the fish and their industry in mind. I enjoyed camping out in the back reaches of Hollw Tree Creek to trap live salmon for the hatcheries. A different attitude seems to prevail down here in southern California, at least among many recreational and commercial fishers.