Down deep...things to remember

[pennypue]

...you know that "poop happens" ( there's T-shirts to prove it! ) - anywhere, anytime - often when you least expect it.

Your attitude is not unlike your average municipal government, who'll wait till there's a nasty fatality at an intersection ( that everyone knows should have had traffic lights long ago ), before they decide to act.

Hypothetically speaking - think of any situation where a dive team's normal ascent from bottom might be delayed: equipment problems / traumatic injury / physiological ailment / psychological meltdown / entrapment etc., etc. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean you're immune.

For all it takes to hang a "hang" - it's a little extra insurance for those nasty possibilities that might affect - yes, even you, an otherwise peachy kinda day.

Regards,
D.S.D.

Yep, poop happens. Some people have the serious poop happen that you described. But more often it is of the variety that is much less serious. I know these kind of people. They are the same type that writes a check on their account without sufficient funds to cover it, then expect a phone call the day it's presented so they can sell something in their brokerage accounts to cover it. It's part of their overall plan. If they couldn't do it, they wouldn't rely on it, they would plan accordingly and correctly.

For some people, if you give them a safety valve, like the checking or the hang bottle, they will PLAN on using it. Putting it into your planning makes it more dangerous when something happens to that safety valve. What's happening here, is that we're taking to people who DO plan correctly, who DON'T plan to use the bottle. But remember, just like in training, you always have to pander to the least common denominator. That's why we have warning labels on coffee cups from McDonalds telling people that their coffee may be hot. People are stupid.

So while ALL of us posting here would not INTEND to use the hang bottle, there are those out there that will. When my children wouldn't close a door that swung out into a hallway I decided to control their behavior. I put a spring hinge on the door to close it for them. But THIS is life and death stuff, I am not going to give someone a crutch to use in place of solid judgement and planning. (There ARE those who will use the bottle just to extend their bottom time a little longer.)

 

[QuoVadis]

Yep, poop happens. Some people have the serious poop happen that you described. But more often it is of the variety that is much less serious. I know these kind of people. They are the same type that writes a check on their account without sufficient funds to cover it, then expect a phone call the day it's presented so they can sell something in their brokerage accounts to cover it. It's part of their overall plan. If they couldn't do it, they wouldn't rely on it, they would plan accordingly and correctly.

For some people, if you give them a safety valve, like the checking or the hang bottle, they will PLAN on using it. Putting it into your planning makes it more dangerous when something happens to that safety valve. What's happening here, is that we're taking to people who DO plan correctly, who DON'T plan to use the bottle. But remember, just like in training, you always have to pander to the least common denominator. That's why we have warning labels on coffee cups from McDonalds telling people that their coffee may be hot. People are stupid.

So while ALL of us posting here would not INTEND to use the hang bottle, there are those out there that will. When my childrend wouldn't close a door that swung out into a hallway I decided to control their behavior. I put a spring hing on the door to close it for them. But THIS is life and death stuff, I am not going to give someone a crutch to use in place of solid judgement and planning. (There ARE those who will use the bottle just to extend their bottom time a little longer.)

There are those who made need it in a life and death situation also. The choice is clear.

 

[Chuck Tribolet]

That's cool and well within your right. I have never been on a dive
with a hang tank but that is not the point. To NOT use one because "folks don't have
those kinds of emergencies on my boat" as the pugster said is insane! The most ignorant
comment yet on the board and I have read many!

That's not what Pug said. He said: "BTW... part of my planning is not to take folks who
have those kinds of emergencies out on my boat in the first place." An ounce of
prevention is worth 35 pounds (weight of hang tank) of cure.

I have a spare tire with my car. It doesnt mean I go looking for nails.

We have spare tires because nails in the road are unavoidable. Needing the hang tank
is avioidable on recreational profiles.

 

[QuoVadis]

That's not what Pug said. He said: "BTW... part of my planning is not to take folks who
have those kinds of emergencies out on my boat in the first place." An ounce of
prevention is worth 35 pounds (weight of hang tank) of cure.



We have spare tires because nails in the road are unavoidable. Needing the hang tank
is avioidable on recreational profiles.

Someone is giving the pugster a run for his $$$ for most ignorant statement if you are implying that all emergencies are avoidable. If you are not saying that all emergencies are avoidable then you have made my point. Which is it?

 

[Snowbear]

Someone is giving the pugster a run for his $$$ for most ignorant statement if you are implying that all emergencies are avoidable. If you are not saying that all emergencies are avoidable then you have made my point. Which is it?

Your point being??... that a hang tank is the best solution for all unavoidable emergencies??

 

[RICHinNC]

Just my point. There are unforseen things that are just unavoidable.......regardless of depth.

 

[QuoVadis]

Your point being??... that a hang tank is the best solution for all unavoidable emergencies??

All unavoidable emergencies that may require a hang tank. Look, it's not the end of the world to have or not to have one. My problem is with the REASONS people are giving. I mean c'mon...."because I, the greatest diver on earth, who knowest all and foresee everything do not allow THOSE divers who have EMERGENCIES on MY BOAT"

Get a clue people...It's an emergency tank. No harm. Maybe oneday.....YOU may need one for that ONE unforeseen, never thought of, most unexpected emergency. What's the big deal?

 

[Rick Murchison]

I alluded to a situation where a hang tank makes sense earlier, but perhaps I wasn't clear... Here's one such situation:
My buddy & I each have a 40cf deco bottle, full.
We also have an 80 full of deco gas.
My gas plan calls for using 12CF deco gas; minimum 35CF on board.
My buddy's gas plan calls for using 13CF deco gas; 35CF minimum on board.
If we hang the 80 and use that for deco, we end the dive with full deco bottles, ready for another dive. In fact, if we use the 80 for deco and all goes well, we can get *three* similar dives in without ever tapping the 40's, and tonight all we need to top up is the 80. To do the same dives without the hang tank, we'd either need to sling 80's or have three 40's each, because the hang tank is *never* part of the planned gas for the dive, and is *never* needed to safely complete the dives, and is *never* considered as "reserve" gas.
It is, rather, a great convenience and a great asset to getting in more bottom time with less hassle and less equipment.
The objection that its presence could somehow tempt us to make unsafe plans or decisions is a red herring.
Rick

 

[RICHinNC]

Tell how you really feel there Quo

 

[boomx5]

All unavoidable emergencies that may require a hang tank. Look, it's not the end of the world to have or not to have one. My problem is with the REASONS people are giving. I mean c'mon...."because I, the greatest diver on earth, who knowest all and foresee everything do not allow THOSE divers who have EMERGENCIES on MY BOAT"

Get a clue people...It's an emergency tank. No harm. Maybe oneday.....YOU may need one for that ONE unforeseen, never thought of, most unexpected emergency. What's the big deal?

That's not what he said...that's not what he implied...and your tone and attitude against a man that you do not even now is offensive and out of line!

To say that a hang tank is going to solve your problems in an emergency means you must have had some major issues on the dive. If you really start to think about it, factoring in a hang bottle adds more stress and planning to a dive and is not as simple as, "just hang it there for an emergency". Let's think about the "big beal" for a second. I would have had lost my backgas, my deco bottle/bottles and my buddy would have had to have lost his backgas or his deco bottle or bottles to make a hang tank neccesary. Not to mention, is one hang tank going to be enough if you blow off all your deco, and have to get to your hang bottle and have to hang at 20' for 50+ minutes depending on depth and bottom time.

Than, what mix do you keep in it? Do you keep tire filler, O2, 50% or some other aberration of common sense? Have you now added an extra deco profile for blowing off all your deco and sitting bent at 20' till you unbend yourself? What if you have an emergency, get to your hang tank and there is a problem with regulator, or the current kicked up and the regulator freeflowed in the current; and because you over looked the rest of your gear and created the need for a hang tank, you also over looked making sure the valve on the hang tank was off before you hung it...you've just lost all your gas. You might as well carry a Spare Air, you may have more luck. The list goes on and on.