Doubles recommendations for a small framed women?

[Guy Alcala]

Keep in mind that aluminum doesn't make very good ballast.

A pair of full Luxfer S80 (with valves) is about 2 x 33.5 = 67 lbs.

These tanks will be almost 9 lbs positive when empty (per pair)

A pair of full E7-100 (with valves) is about 2 x 36 = 72 lbs.

These tanks will be about 2 lbs negative when empty (per pair)

If you add the ~11 lbs of additional ballast you need to dive the S80's vs the E7-100 your total "stand up" weight for the 80's is 67 + 11 = 78 lbs vs 72 for the larger capacity Steel tanks.

Tobin

Er, Tobin, when I've weighed a full Luxfer 80 it came in at about 38 lb., not 33.5. IIRR empty weight with valve is given as 31.8 lb., so adding 5.8 lb. to that would bring it to 37.6 lb. I don't think doubled Al80s make a lot of sense around here, given drysuits and the amount of weight we have to wear - I've always read of them being a warm-water rig (I should be so lucky).

Guy

 

[Rainer]

I have some dozen plus steel cylinders in the house, but I *do* think there are some merits to double AL80s, even in cold water:

(1) They're cheap. Not worth discounting.

(2) Hardly any corrosion issues.

(3) They hold plenty of gas for two moderate recreational dives or one T1 dive. You can always add stages as needed.

(4) They trim out beautifully. I see lots of of taller/bigger divers locally with HP100s who'd likely be a lot flatter in the water with longer AL80s (and a tailweight for some).

(5) You can always break them down later for stages. That's what I eventually did with mine.

(6) They're pretty much the cylinders you can expect to use when you travel. Might as well get comfortable with them now.

All that said, sure, they weigh more for the amount of gas they hold.

Er, Tobin, when I've weighed a full Luxfer 80 it came in at about 38 lb., not 33.5. IIRR empty weight with valve is given as 31.8 lb., so adding 5.8 lb. to that would bring it to 37.6 lb. I don't think doubled Al80s make a lot of sense around here, given drysuits and the amount of weight we have to wear - I've always read of them being a warm-water rig (I should be so lucky).

Guy

 

[Guy Alcala]

Hi Jeff the manic cat ,

I think I have a good answer for you.

As you know from our past conversations, I was a technical rock climber for many years before scuba, so it makes sense that I am getting a bit bored with the local easy diving. The local UTD/GUE divers have been mentoring me in the conversion from warm water diver to drysuit diver & now they are requesting doubles to keep me engaged in the shallows and extend my future dive range.
<snip>
It's not a secret that I am inspired by future more aggressive diving. That’s the reason I am here. But skill will determine if I ever go there. At this point, I have no idea. It’s just fun to learn new challenging gear and technique one piece at a time - even in the shallows !

I don't see the connection. I highly doubt you have come even close to exhausting the local diving available in single tanks (e.g. on boats).

Allison

Allison, I imagine it's a question of the personal challenge. I've got about 270 dives and, like Kathy, I'm getting bored with the typical recreational dive despite my inventing navigational challenges or doing mapping. I expect Kathy and I both enjoy going places that the majority can't/won't, stretching our physical/mental limits.

So, it's not surprising that someone like Kathy gets bored with recreational diving fairly fast. I don't know about her, but I knew from the start that I wanted to go tech, because just swimming around looking at fish, slugs etc. palled fairly soon. I knew I wanted to dive deep, cold, wrecks and/or caves because of the higher level of skills/knowledge/experience required, and because those environments were more interesting to me. Same for Fofo I imagine, which is why we're looking to take Fundies with Rob come April

Guy

 

[lamont]

Be careful with those doubles if you decide to do a surf entry on a steep beach, such as Monastery Beach (near Carmel). I used to dive with double 72's in the early 1970's when I lived in Ohio. They were great for cave dives in Florida and deep wreck dives in Georgian Bay, and they were not a problem in the local quarries. Then in 1975, I moved to California, and decided to dive at Monastery Beach. As I attempted to enter the surf, I got knocked down by a wave, and the weight of those doubles made it hard for me to even get back out of the water. A couple of local guys dragged me up the beach. I didn't dive that day. The next day, I went to the local dive shop, and bought two K-valves, and turned my doubles into a couple of singles. Shallow beaches are not a problem with doubles, but steep beaches can be difficult. (My 2 psi.)

I had a similar issue here with double-130s and tanker wake.

I was out with a relative newbie diver and we were perfectly situated where the tanker wake started breaking and it completely incapacitated me, and I wouldn't have been able to assist my buddy if she'd spit her reg out or something like that.

Kind of scary, and I now own a set of double-100s and double-al80s which are a lot easier for me to throw around. That dive was a bit of a wake up call that diving double-130s all the time not only is a bit tech-poseur-ish but could potentially be dangerous. I still like having doubles for redundancy when diving with newbie divers, but i'd rather have smaller doubles...

At the same time, doing tech diving, if your buddies are males, you gotta bring enough gas for them, so small females still need to bring quite a bit of gas to do the dives...

 

[ae3753]

One thing I remain adamant about is that it is FAR better to solve any buoyancy and trim issues in a single tank, before moving to doubles.

I am as well. I'm a firm believer of building blocks and getting foundational skills correctly before moving on or adding more complexity - whether that's new gear or new environments or new team.

I wouldn't have provided Kathy the opportunity to try doubles if I didn't think that her single tank bouyancy, trim and propulsion was good.

As she said, she's not in a rush for doubles. This weekend was more to experience doubles, and that is all. There is no push or expectation that Kathy is going to pick up doubles this week and start diving a set this coming weekend.

In fact, her next "goal" is to take Fundies in single tank gear in a couple of months.

 

[kanonfodr]

Just an aside;

Kathy, I have a set of bands and a manifold that came off of my LP98 tanks when I bought them and converted them to singles use. PM me if you want them.

BTW, it was great diving with you this weekend. You did look really good in the doubles, even if your trim was a bit off. You made me feel like a fool compared to how solid you looked in the water.

Peace,
Greg

 

[TSandM]

Well, the dirty secret is what Laura James told me when I was looking into getting my first set of doubles. Doubles dive BEAUTIFULLY. They are a PITA on land, getting on, off, and back onto the boat, and getting into any kind of moving water. But once you're diving . . . well, once you get accustomed to them, you'd rather dive them than anything else. I LOVED my week on the MV Tala, diving double Al80's in salt water in my drysuit in 80 degree water -- I was stable, I could stay down as long as I wanted, and I was warm no matter how long I stayed down. That is utopia for a diver.

Don, Kathy has great mentors. I'm sure nobody is rushing her. But she DID take Essentials recently, and those of us who are advising from afar can only guess at the total package she's dealing with.

Kathy, LP85s. 'Nuff said. Wish you were up here, and I'd taking you diving in mine.

 

[StreetDoctor]

I understand where you're at, I think I felt the same way you did. I did my 3rd dive in a drysuit about 15 dives before diving my first set of doubles (130's). If you have a good mentor the curve is not that steep.

 

[drydiver]

Well, not to be controversial here, but I dive HP 80's and for some reason thought they would be my stepping stone towards doubles, at least finance wise. I dive with all older guys with 100's and my 80's seem fine so I though my first test run with my regular buddies would be with those. I think it depends on the dive environment combined with your regular buddies SAC on their regular equip while you are experimenting.

Donna

 

[kathydee]

I don't see the connection.

]

I, too, do not understand the OP's comment. :shocked2:Just

A connection? Well to keep it simple, basically both sports require an absurdly large pile of heavy expensive gear and tons of technical skills that enable you to do stuff & go places that otherwise would be impossible for 99+% of the public. Walking out of one world into the other, it makes sense that cattle boats & shore diving won’t entertain forever.