Doubles and DIRF

[theundertow]

Hi All,

I'm hoping to begin cave training within the next year and the more i read about DIR/GUE the more i like the concept and apparent high standards (though not sure how standards compare to other agencies). My question is - if i take fundamentals soon and plan to go cave 1 in the future, must i do DIRF in a full cave setup (doubles, canister light, 7ft hose etc.)? does seem logical...

If so, I have never dove doubles - would i need to get a few dives with doubles ahead of DIRF to have the good buoyancy and trim required of the course? Is it manageable to learn doubles during the course?? I ask since I may do DIRF very soon and wait a while for cave 1 - a doubles rig being a considerable expense right now. I don't live anywhere near shops that rent such gear, though I may be able to borrow a set.

I am an inactive status padi instructor with solid skills and currently dive a DIR appropriate single tank bp/w rig. Thanks for any help. Cheers,

Chris

 

[nadwidny]

If you want a tech pass (which you do since cave is a goal) then you need to do the course in doubles with all the trimmings.

You need to dive them and get comfortable with them ahead of time.

 

[Bismark]

If you plan on taking GUE Cave I, then you will have to have a Tech pass in Fundamentals which means doing the class in doubles with long hose, can light and tighter standards in other areas.

Yes, you should have several (if not many) dives on doubles before you take the class in order to get the most from it. If you are using new equipment for the first time as well as sipping from the firehose (albeit smaller than the Cave I or Tech I firehose.....) of GUE instruction, then you will most likely not get the most from the class and probably not achieve a tech pass. With your experience with the single tank DIR setup, this may not be as big a deal, but a familiarity with doubles and valve manipulation will definitely serve you well. GUE courses are not very similar to what you used to teach in the sense that many people do not pass the courses the first time around. I would hazard a guess that most of the people who did not pass went in to the classes unprepared. Where do you live? If you can find some other GUE/DIR divers in your area they will most likely help you with gear and get you on the path to passing the Fundamentals course and headed towards Cave I.

 

[TSandM]

It really depends on your time course. You can take Fundies in a single tank and get a great deal out of it, and later transition to doubles and test for a tech upgrade to your rec pass. This is what I did. If your plans for cave are soon (as in, within the year) I'd highly recommend getting into doubles, diving them long enough to get the worst of the trim and stability issues worked out (and it can take some time and some gear fiddling to get it right) and taking the class in doubles.

You could use the time in class and with the instructor to get your doubles settled out, but you would be extremely unlikely to get the tech pass you need to go on to cave, and it would be a bit unfair to your classmates, who would be having to cope with your buoyancy and trim issues while they're trying to work on polishing skills to a passing level.

If you intend to take your cave class through another agency, it doesn't matter what you do. Take Fundies in a single tank, transition to doubles, and practice what you learned with the doubles setup until you go for cave.

In my limited experience, GUE's standards are significantly more demanding than those of the instructor from another agency from whom I took my first cave class. That's why I'm going back to do Cave 1 in April.

 

[David C R]

I made my fundies with doubles, before that, I just dived doubles a couple of times (I mean just two times) and I got my rec pass with doubles, that means I'll work hard to get the tec pass, but never felt uncomfortable with the doubles during course, on one point they're even easy to dive with that singles, but what I'm pretty sure that made the difference about reaching the pass is that I made a lot of diving with a single wing and most of the hog configuration (long hose, canister style light, bungee backup regulator, etc. about 30 to 40 dives with that, and most of them cavern diving, so I took time to get used to the rigg,
I strongly suggest that you buy the fundamentals gue book read it and try to configure your equipment that way, if you have doubts look for dir practicioners for help or even better to your future trainer, work on your trim and buoyancy with the new equipment and I'm sure you'll make it!

 

[MattL]

If you feel that you can do all the skills in a singal tank then you be ok and that would be all the kicks shouting a bag looking at gage ever 5 mins becarful some of the thos guys use bar and then will ask you what there psi was so look at there gage ect i like to look at buddy line in a 30 sec scan time

 

[theundertow]

Thanx for the help guys. I think my top priority now is to get some time in water with a set of doubles. Today I also managed to reach a local gue cave diver I dove with once last summer. We're gonna get together and chat about the courses. Thanks again. Cheers,

Chris

 

[Jason B]

If you feel that you can do all the skills in a singal tank then you be ok and that would be all the kicks shouting a bag looking at gage ever 5 mins becarful some of the thos guys use bar and then will ask you what there psi was so look at there gage ect i like to look at buddy line in a 30 sec scan time

We were never required to look at a team mates (or instructors) spg nor required to show ours.

 

[MattL]

We were never required to look at a team mates (or instructors) spg nor required to show ours.

i know some guys that have my dive budy working on getting his gue insters card so i get to talk to this guys all time and here what they do to divers to trick them up

 

[yangnome]

I think it depends on your situation and what you want to get out of the course. I'll tell you about my experience though, take it or leave it for what it is worth.

I finished fundies yesterday, in a doubles set up. I too debated doing it in doubles or not. I had dove the singles system since June (About 40-50 dives in it) and felt very comfortable in it. I had intended to switch to doubles and get 10-20 dives in them, but a broken drysuit zipper interfered (money diverted from a manifold purchase and time out of the water).

When I got the drysuit back, I was able to borrow a set of dubs for a dive with a local diver. We did a quick weight check, then a scooter dive--in other words, not much in the way of familiarization. I spoke with a lot of divers asking if I should do it in singles or dubs. The advice I received varied about 50/50. Some said take it in a rig I'm comfortable with and focus on the skills. Some said take it in the rig you'll be diving after fundies (doubles) and use the class time to get them dialed in. Neither argument is a bad one, but this didn't help. I figured I could probably get a strong rec pass in singles, but would probably provisional in dubs. I wasn't worried about passing the course the first time through though, I just wanted to learn.

Finally, I contacted my instructor and asked him for his advice. He said take it in doubles. He said it might be more difficult, but that it would better support my future diving. So I did. I literally had my tanks doubled up the first day of class during lecture.

Overall, the experience was good. There were certainly issues that wouldn't have occured in my singles rig, but I was able to address these issues and tweak things under the eye of my instructor (and of course the videotape). In the end, I came out with a "strong" rec pass. tehre are a couple things I need to work on, but they pretty much involve just getting used to the doubles. Even those things are starting to come together. In a few dives, I'll probably be ready to get together with my instructor for a tech checkout (though I probably won't do it that soon--no plans of higher training in the near future, and I'd rather have the checkout hanging over my head to keep me from getting complacent.)

If I had to do it all over again, I would take it in doubles again. I would like to get 10-20 dives in doubles in prior to the course.

Another thing to consider is what your fundies team will be diving. You might want to be in teh same rig (one reason I went ahead and did doubles). You don't want to be the only person changing tanks (making your team get out with you). It'd also probably help skills to have everyone diving the same and working on the same stuff.

Aside from that though, whether you do singles or doubles, my advice is go in with an open mind, ready to learn. Leave your ego at the door and make the changes you need. If you don't understand the advice you are given, ask.