Double bladder question

[Dtaine]

well i might not need it, but why not take it? there's no redundancy issues, so what's the problem?

erik

I thought a big part of DIR diving was not taking anything unnecessary on a dive. If it's not needed leave it at the dock, on the boat, or better yet don't have it at all.

 

[Big Toes]

well, think about this: a double bladder wing is about the same size or slightly larger than a regular wing. you don't have to take anything extra with you. you've got extra buoyancy via the wing and don't have to rely on the super-sketchy drysuit. now do you want to do your blue water deco with 200#+ of gear with a 'maybe' realiable drysuit or a second blader that you know is reliable?

all i'm saying here is that the wing is much more reliable and stable than the drysuit. so why would you rely on the drysuit when you know that you've got a fully functional wing on your back? even if this second wing fails you've got you're drysuit.

still waiting for good replies.

erik

 

[PerroneFord]

well, think about this: a double bladder wing is about the same size or slightly larger than a regular wing. you don't have to take anything extra with you. you've got extra buoyancy via the wing and don't have to rely on the super-sketchy drysuit. now do you want to do your blue water deco with 200#+ of gear with a 'maybe' realiable drysuit or a second blader that you know is reliable?

all i'm saying here is that the wing is much more reliable and stable than the drysuit. so why would you rely on the drysuit when you know that you've got a fully functional wing on your back? even if this second wing fails you've got you're drysuit.

still waiting for good replies.

erik

By "good replies" I assume you mean one that agrees with what you assert. You'll have a hard time finding that here in the DIR forum. And you'll have an even harder time convincing anyone here that you actually took (and passed or got a provisional) with an actual DIR Fundies instructor.

You believe the wing to be more reliable in a backup role. Most of us will disagree. Because we understand that the most likely reasons for a failure of a wing are things that would compromise both bladders. it's like carrying two eggs in a basket. Drop the basket and you break both eggs. Keep one in your pocket, and you might get home with an egg. I prefer to keep my redundancy options separate. This is part and parcel of DIR.

For me personally, the double bladder wing was a CF waiting to happen. If I left it connected, the potential for it to inflate due to failure was an issue. If I left it inflated, the chances I could get a reasonable amount of gas in it to offset a failure before I sunk like a stone were small. The additional inflator hose interfered with how I had things routed on my right side. Redundancy dictated that I run another LP hose to the second inflator, even if I left it disconnected.

Now, if you are diving a balanced rig then the drysuit easily takes over the load if your wing fails because you only need a small amount of gas. You claim to be new to doubles, but you are arguing the point with people who collectively have thousands of dives in this configuration. If you simply want someone to agree with your point of view, you've come to the wrong area. If you are trying to get views from people who've been there and done that, then listen to what people are saying.

As to the fact that your 85# wing seemed large, you're right. A 40# wing would have easily gotten it done. And a real Fundies instructor would have put different gear on you from the get-go. So I don't know who you took a course with, if you took it at all, but it sure as heck wasn't Fundies.

 

[orange_diver]

alternate forms of lift in DIR diving in the unlikely event you rip your wing to shreds (and you would have to really gouge it for it to not hold ANY gas:

1. drysuit
2. buddy
3. lift bag

so you don't need a second wing, hence you don't bring one. maybe if you were solo diving, but that ain't DIR at all.

in addition to that, there's a chance that whatever was catastrophic enough to shred your primary wing could also shred your second bladder/wing as well and then where would you be?

 

[Big Toes]

to you orange diver:

i'd have my secondary wing. and if it shredded my secondary wing i'd be ******ed. that's life! but you know what, i'd have one more chance at life than the people that only had one wing did!

responses?

 

[Big Toes]

i agree with you on a lot of points. but the bottom line is that when **** goes to hell in a handbag, you're relying on your drysuit! Me, in the same situation, would rather rely on a bladder. so why would you do that? Not sure if you've ever done deco in a drysuit, but it sucks; all the more so with deco bottles. wouldn't you rather have a bladder? real control? somebobody give me an answer here!

 

[orange_diver]

to you orange diver:

i'd have my secondary wing. and if it shredded my secondary wing i'd be ******ed. that's life! but you know what, i'd have one more chance at life than the people that only had one wing did!

responses?

well, those of use that had our redundancy in another place, like a drysuit, buddy or a stowed lift bag would live to dive another day. good luck with your "that's life!" philosophy.

i think PerroneFord and others pretty much gave you all the DIR responses you are going to find here. i suggest you take your query to the general technical forum to find others that will agree with you.

 

[Big Toes]

you still haven't answered me. why would you not have a second wing? and let's not be pissy with the drysuit/liftbag/buddy responses. i'm not looking for some 'DIR' response to this query; i'm looking for a real world answer as to why this is not 'DIR' and what the real reason is. again, still waiting for intelligent responses...

thanks.

erik

 

[Sas]

you still haven't answered me. why would you not have a second wing?

What about these?

the problem is that you aren't diving a balanced rig in the first place, thus necessitating a gear solution. If you are doing a dive that is significant enough to require large steel tanks, then why are you diving wet? If the dive is deep, you're going to be in deco. If the dive is shallow but long, then thermal protection is going to be warranted. So the correct answer is to wear a drysuit. And along with that comes redundant buoyancy.

Try the search function for this forum. Your question comes up quite often and has been rehashed over and over.

Because you don't need it.

I thought a big part of DIR diving was not taking anything unnecessary on a dive. If it's not needed leave it at the dock, on the boat, or better yet don't have it at all.

If I left it connected, the potential for it to inflate due to failure was an issue. If I left it inflated, the chances I could get a reasonable amount of gas in it to offset a failure before I sunk like a stone were small. The additional inflator hose interfered with how I had things routed on my right side. Redundancy dictated that I run another LP hose to the second inflator, even if I left it disconnected.

And so on.

i'm not looking for some 'DIR' response to this query;

Go post in another forum then that isn't DIR. I'm not DIR but I like to read this forum as there is a lot of good stuff here.... and people like you who come in looking for a fight annoy me.

 

[pengwe]

DIR is built on principles. One of them is that you don't take stuff you don't need. A double bladder might be nice in some situations, but you don't ever need it, so you don't take it. There may not be any huge problem with it, as such, but it is not strictly necessary, so it doesn't come along.

If you want to take it cos you like it, go ahead. You won't die or anything . But it's not DIR, because it doesn't follow DIR principles.