Donning a bp/w (Halcyon Eclipse)

[Andy_HFC]

I am a cold water UK diver. 5mm 2 piece semi dry and need 20lbs of weight. (ish, i have got away with 16lbs, but was concerned about safety stops so haven't done it again)

Anyway, currently i use Oceanic Wolf BCD. I love the pockets on the thing and the lift is excellent and the position is pretty good, but i find it rides up on me a little, nothing major but i feel it could do with being a little more secure. I am a skinny bloke and have found this with all BCD's i have used.

As a result i have been looking at wings, in particular the Halcyon Eclipse. I notice it has a crotch strap. which makes perfect sense to me and is something i feel would really work for me.

However, as i am used to the BCD style i can't get my head around how you put the thing on when there is a continuous strap? Do you step into the crotch strap? How do you lift the thing up then? I just can't imagine how i would donn the thing when standing on the beach??

Also there are no clips to remove the set up - what happens if you get stuck?

I know these things make more sense when you can see them, but there are no suppliers anywhere near me and i can't try one. So you guys are the next best thing!

Kind regards

Andy
HFC

 

[cool_hardware52]

I am a cold water UK diver. 5mm 2 piece semi dry and need 20lbs of weight. (ish, i have got away with 16lbs, but was concerned about safety stops so haven't done it again)

Anyway, currently i use Oceanic Wolf BCD. I love the pockets on the thing and the lift is excellent and the position is pretty good, but i find it rides up on me a little, nothing major but i feel it could do with being a little more secure. I am a skinny bloke and have found this with all BCD's i have used.

As a result i have been looking at wings, in particular the Halcyon Eclipse. I notice it has a crotch strap. which makes perfect sense to me and is something i feel would really work for me.

However, as i am used to the BCD style i can't get my head around how you put the thing on when there is a continuous strap? Do you step into the crotch strap? How do you lift the thing up then? I just can't imagine how i would donn the thing when standing on the beach??

Also there are no clips to remove the set up - what happens if you get stuck?

I know these things make more sense when you can see them, but there are no suppliers anywhere near me and i can't try one. So you guys are the next best thing!

Kind regards

Andy
HFC

Donning a hogarthian harnessed BP&W is actually pretty simple.

Keep in mind that with a back plate one does not need the harness to ratcheted down tight. The plate keeps the tank from rolling relative to the diver.

Many BC users assume they have to be able to cinch the harness very snug, because they have been doing so with their current BC in an effort to keep the tank from flopping around.

I start facing the rig and connect my drysuit hose, then I get my left arm and drysuit exhaust valve through the left shoulder strap. Make sure the crotch strap is free to hang down, i.e. you don't want the crotch strap fouled on the rig.

Last is my right arm, no exhaust valve to deal with.

Once my arms are in I stand up and swing my hips a bit, that gets the scooter ring on the free end of the crotch strap swinging enough that I can reach down and grab it with my hand.

Loop the waist strap through the crotch strap and secure the waist buckle and your down.

Keep in mind I'm usually doing this in a drysuit and ~100 lbs of doubles and a canister light. I'm 50 years old.

With a wetsuit and single tank it's much easier.

Hogarthian Harnesses aren't difficult, they are different, with a bit of practice it becomes second nature.

Tobin

 

[Andy_HFC]

Yep, that makes perfect sense. I hadn't realised the crotch strap had the waist strap fed through it, that's where i got confused.

You have my problem nailed. I have my BCD really tight in an attempt to secure it, but like i said it does tend to roll throwing me off balance. Not always, but sometimes.

Now, i just have the whole al or ss backplate decision to make!

Cheers buddy.

 

[Gombessa]

I'm sure Tobin can give you a much more personalized suggestion, but with a single tank and 16-20lb of total ballast, you'll likely be looking at a stainless steel plate with no more than 25-30lb lift:

https://www.deepseasupply.com/index.php?product=2
https://www.deepseasupply.com/index.php?product=104
https://www.deepseasupply.com/index.php?product=107

 

[Andy_HFC]

I have been looking at that set up as a serious option. I would also like the dumpable weight option. Yes, i am purely rec diver, single cylinder, no deco diving etc.

What about pockets? I am very accustomed to stowing all my essentials in the 2 small pockets on the front of my BCD. There aren't any on my suit btw.

Can you add a pocket? Or will that clutter up the front too much with weight pockets.

 

[masterof0]

I have been looking at that set up as a serious option. I would also like the dumpable weight option. Yes, i am purely rec diver, single cylinder, no deco diving etc.

What about pockets? I am very accustomed to stowing all my essentials in the 2 small pockets on the front of my BCD. There aren't any on my suit btw.

Can you add a pocket? Or will that clutter up the front too much with weight pockets.

You have a couple of options with pockets. you can purchase accessory pockets but it does clutter up the rig. What you find most people do is either get glue on pockets and glue them on to their suit, or the option I use when diving wet, is use x-shorts which are shorts that just go over your wetsuit and have integrated pockets. By using these I mimic the pockets on my drysuit and maintain the simplicity of my rig.
http://www.dive-xtras.com/cart/pc/catalog/xshorts_1680_detail.jpg

For weights, most divers use belts. Having recently made the change to bp/w I actually like the belt better for a couple of reasons. 1) it doesn't turn your rig into a 80+ pound piece of lead you are trying to sling around. it is heavy enough without the weight. (This is especially noticeable when you have to kick yourself up into an inflatable.) I much prefer the two pieces than one heavy piece. 2) with integrated systems you are limited as to where the weight can be used by using a belt, you can place the lead anywhere (both height and around the body) you want which helps achieve the balance you want. And it is easily dumpable in an emergency.

 

[Gombessa]

I have been looking at that set up as a serious option. I would also like the dumpable weight option. Yes, i am purely rec diver, single cylinder, no deco diving etc.

What about pockets? I am very accustomed to stowing all my essentials in the 2 small pockets on the front of my BCD. There aren't any on my suit btw.

Can you add a pocket? Or will that clutter up the front too much with weight pockets.

The X-shorts suggestion (or gluing pockets onto your suit) is probably the best overall suggestion in terms of maximizing storage space and utility. But you can add a small pocket or two to the harness. I've seen some that thread on where a canister light would typically go, and if you don't have a can light, those are unobtrusive enough.

As for ditchable weight, even with a 6lb stainless steel plate, with your weighting you'd still have 10-15lb you can distribute as you need, most of which will probably go on a weight belt. There are some options for harness-mounted quick-release weights, but I've never used those so I can't comment on how well they work.

 

[Andy_HFC]

Never coped very well with the weight belt. Found it was too much stuff around my waist and fought with the waistband of my BCD. I would prefer some form of weight pocket. But, i would also prefer a pouch on the rig, rather than my legs, but i may look into gluing some on my suit - just need to get used to it.

Cheers guys, i'm nearly there with my new rig setup. Just need to work out weights and a storage area!

 

[cool_hardware52]

Never coped very well with the weight belt. Found it was too much stuff around my waist and fought with the waistband of my BCD. I would prefer some form of weight pocket. But, i would also prefer a pouch on the rig, rather than my legs, but i may look into gluing some on my suit - just need to get used to it.

Cheers guys, i'm nearly there with my new rig setup. Just need to work out weights and a storage area!

A heavy weight belt can be a pain, but 4-6-8 lbs ina weight belt is easily managed.

Keep in mind that if you choose to hang 100% of your ballast on your rig you will need a larger wing than you would if you carry some of your ballast on your person in a belt.

The minimum total ballast required to dive has to equal the buoyancy of your exposure suit at your shallow stop depth with a near empty cylinder.

For example I'll assume your exposure suit is 22 lbs positive, your plate, harness, empty cylinder and regulator + lead needs to total 22 lbs.

In addition your wing needs to be able to float your rig at the surface with a full cylinder if you ditch it. Lets say you are using a HP 100 tank, -2 lbs empty and -10 lbs full.

If 100% of your ballast is on your rig it will be -22 lbs with an empty tank and -30 lbs with a full tank (8lbs of gas in a 100 cuft tank) That means to be able to float your rig you need a 35 lbs wing.

On the other hand if you but some of your ballast in belt, say 8 lbs, your rig is now no longer -30 lbs with a full tank, but is only -22lbs. That makes the smaller Torus 26 wing a reasonable choice. 26 > 22 so your rig floats. A 8 lbs weight belt is easily managed by most people.

If you do ditch your rig, or want to put it on in the water, for example when diving from a skiff, having some of your ballast in a belt helps too. With no ballast on your person it's more difficult "swim into" your gear wearing a 22 lbs positive suit.

Keep in mind that smaller wings are easier and more fun to dive.

As far as storage, take a hard look at what your really need to take with you, most of the must haves can be clipped off.

Tobin

 

[fnfalman]

I have a very small utility on my waist belt. I don't have anything in it, and can easily do without it. Anything "essential" can be clipped to the D-rings or bungee tied to the plate. The small utility pouch is usually for picking up soft leads that fall out of poodle jackets' trim pockets, or picking up small trash that I find at the bottom of the ocean (bottle caps, soda cans that I crush flat, et al). I'm not a hippy tree hugger but I do try to be as environmentally friendly as possible. If that means carrying a utility pocket that can house minor trash I find in the water, then that's what I do.

Although the next wetsuit I get will get built-in thigh pockets so that I don't have to carry the utility pouch any more.