Done differently??

[Ber Rabbit]

Here's what I do with my OW students:
Arrive at site, set up, briefing. Play in the wetsuits, it's their first time in 7mm suits so I have them get in the water with no gear on and bob around, try to descent, etc. Once they are comfortable with that we go get the skin diving gear and do a proper buoyancy check. Once everyone has their buoyancy set in the skin diving gear we do the skin diving skills. We get out and assemble the scuba gear and do the skin dive de-brief and dive #1 briefing.

Getting in and playing in that wetsuit gets a lot of the butterflies out and the skin diving skills lets them get a bit of a look at what's under them and shows them that the skills they learned in the pool do indeed apply in the open water. It really does boost the student's comfort level. If they are still "freaky" after the skin diving session we postpone their diving to another time because it's just not going to be a positive experience and someone could get hurt. We don't have to use that option very often but we have used it. I've had a couple of students do fine on the first day and get wierd on me on the second day--we stopped the session and re-scheduled. Sometimes the students are just tired or have other things on their mind and they can't relax and it's usually a relief to them when they don't have to dive. If they aren't comfortable in the water we don't certify them--I had to do an extra day of diving myself to earn my OW certification because my instructor felt I wasn't comfortable in the water.

That's one of the hardest things about being an instructor, recognizing that someone just isn't safe to dive that day and then having the fortitude to tell them "no".

You don't have to certify every student you train. I probably only certify about 40% of the people who originally sign up for the class at the university. Most of that is due to their decision not to dive but some of it is due to my decision not to certify them.

Just my .02.
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[scubajoh44]

You are right, and I commend you for not certifying people who you don't believe are ready. I just don't know how this guy got his OW and was still so freaked out. I kept thinking he was going to snap out of it. I guess we need to be ready for all kinds of wanna be divers out there.

 

[Ber Rabbit]

I guess we need to be ready for all kinds of wanna be divers out there.

You have no idea and it's not just lower level certifications--I've got some DM stories you would not believe Getting certified at a leadership level really opens your eyes. It's not an easy position but there are some really awesome students out there and they are a joy to teach and they make the hard work and aggravation worthwhile.
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[Ayisha]

...see how nervous or out of breath he was... He was NOT underweighted. Still don't know what the problem was.

So he was not underweighted, his BC was empty, and yet he still couldn't descend.
It could very well be the fact that he was out of breath.

I have mild asthma, that is rarely an issue. I know that if I am short of breath, and cannot exhale for more than half a second (rapid, shallow breathing), there is NO way I can descend with correct weighting or even being a little overweighted. I can pull myself down, and the breathing will resolve itself, but of course it's better to resolve it before descending. See if the guy can exhale slowly and deeply in order to descend.

Whether the guy was short of breath because he was panicking or had exerted himself, it's helpful to give someone a few moments to catch their breath. I like to be the first one in the water or to the descent line, so that while I wait for my buddy, I can catch my breath, especially if we have to do a surface swim against a current to the line.

Also, I find that when the inflator/deflator hose is strapped under the velcro, I can't lift it high enough to empty the BC completely. I prefer it out.

Hope that helps.

 

[WetDawg]

Two words to solve this entire problem:

Buoyancy Check.

If the diver was properly weighted and still complained that he "can't get down" then the problem is between his ears. He needs a "head Check" and probably should not be diving that day.

If he continues with this sort of behavior at some point it's the duty of the instructor to hand the student a tennis racket and suggest they take up another sport.

 

[markfm]

Sometimes things are just off, a bad day. Thankfully I wasn't offered a tennis racket.

During my combined OW/drysuit cert dives, I had a freeflow day on Dive 2, with my Instructor also having an equipment prob on that dive. Another day I had problems breathing, couldn't figure it out -- turns out that my buddy (a different Instructor) was doing the roll-the-neoprene-neck-seal for me, and the darn thing was resting on my Adam's apple -- I really couldn't breathe properly, physical not mental stress; that day I learned to do my own neck seal, whatever the book says. Another day where I just couldn't equalize on Dive 2. It took four total trips to A Bay and, finally, Cape Vincent before I finished my OW and drysuit certs. My Instructor could see that I was game, good attitude, and it gave me early experience with "stuff happens" -- learn to roll with a bad day.

70 dives later, starting towards DM, those were all valuable learning experiences. I somehow expect that few of us were true "naturals". Getting encouragement from the pros, as well as learning to call it in for the day when things were just plain off, is what gave me a chance to get involved in something I really enjoy.

 

[RainTurtle]

I remember as a divemaster helping take AOW students on the deep dive, I had one guy almost crawl down to 100 feet never taking his hands off the bottom. He was acting panicked the entire time and when we were done I told the instructor I didn't think he had passed that skill. I had no problem telling the instructor that because to let him continue would be bad for the student. As ya'll have noted, this was a situation where I wondered how in the world this student got his OW cert.

I also agree with Ber Rabbit that you have to make the call about whether they are ready to open water in the pool. At times I've had students act ready in the pool and nervous at the lake but given time they calm down.

Suzanne : )

 

[carldarl]

This summer I took my family to the Channel Islands for a 4-day live-a-board to get their AOW cert's. My daughter had a panic attack at about 40 feet during her night dive. (a combination KELP and night, more-so the kelp) I had to bring her up half way through.

The next day her instructor (not me) made her pick up an additional category (DPV scooters) and failed her on the night dive. (rightfully so). After complaining, she moved on and learned and enjoyed the scooter. If they blow the dive they blow the dive.

With some work the next day I got her back into some kelp during the daytime. She says she may try a night dive in Jamaica with me in January. MAYBE... if it is a shore dive and easy. (She's never dived warm water yet.)

I would rather she "flunk" the class and learn than get "passed" and be allowed to just "buy" her certification and then blow up later.

 

[alexxred]

I think what is being discussed could be an exellent example of someone putting themselves into a situation without really knowing what they are getting themselves into. Especially when they are already certfied. Thing is, then the ball is in the court of the instructor, or the DM. Now I'm talking from personal experiance, I had my OW, and after a 3 year break did my AOW. So before taking that on I did a refresher, and that was with a DM. At the time told the people the last time I had dived was a year ago. So there I am on the boat, and before I know it I'm in the water, going down, searching the memory banks. I thought a refresher would cover all the basics, but before I knew it I was on a boat and in the water. Fault here is mine, I should have been more honest. But I think that this situation would not be uncommon or similar to what we are talking about. For me I got to the bottom with no problems, it was around 15m and then it was time to practice some skills. So there I am flooding my mask, taking my weight belt off, etc etc. Now at the end of the day it all went well, but when I look back it could have been a total disaster. As a certified diver in my opinion the buck stops with you. And that sure as hell includes me. While I was fortunate to be able to remember enough of my training, and be calm, if things go wrong they can go really really wrong. I would not see that as the DM's fault. I would see it as mine. I know my example is a bit different, but I think it illustrates a good point. BTW as it happen's I went on to do my resuce course along with many other dives with this company and it was great. Certainly got me hooked!

 

[scubajoh44]

All true. Thanks all!!

1. Encourage.
2. Check everything I can think of.
3. Watch carefully.
4. Call it a day when needed.
5. Try again.
6. Don't certify if they can't do it!