Done differently??

[markfm]

Thanks. It was the concept of making up something, as in an item that hadn't been successfully done before, that I was stumbling over..

 

[do it easy]

This is a tough nut, since basically, you are in the position to decide if it's appropriate to teach him what he should have learned in OW. In this situation, I wouldn't encourage him to kick or pull himself down, but to get weighted properly. It takes more time, but once it's done right (or at least close enough), the rest gets easier. As a DM, I try to be a good role model (darn brainwashing!) and take every oppurtunity to exhibit skills that I think the students are lacking. For example, if I'm watching a few students, while the instructor is evaluating others, I might "show off" some bouyancy skills so that they can at least see what is possible. Or, if I'm leading the group to a site, I try not to get lost and keep the group together, so that when they try it themselves, they will know that it can be done. I'll also constuctively point out things that they need to change or improve- like tightening the weightbelt.

The rest is up to the instructor since it is their liability to certify them or not.

 

[do it easy]

I was accompanying two AOW students on a navigation dive- they had to swim a square pattern, and it was a comedy of errors. In a nutshell, they got lost and one of them wrote "we are lost" on his slate. I was "lost" but I knew the beach was to the east, so shook my head and I wrote back to swim east until we hit 20'. If I led them back, they would learn nothing, but by making them at least swim a compass heading they get some practice with the basic skills. As luck would have it, we came right back to the platform where we started from. The two divers were amazed and later asked me how I knew where it was. I could have lied, but I admitted that I didn't know, but I knew the exit was east and I could dead reckon the beach at 20'.

For AOW (or non OW) dives, I'll let the students make as many mistakes underwater as they can, as long as they aren't putting themselves in danger or getting frustrated to the point of panic or defeat.

 

[carldarl]

The two disclaimers I mentioned, not being an instructor and not wanting to sound too negative were because they were those of "just and average diver."

One of my concerns in addition to the safety of a studant is the liability of a DM should something go wrong. In todays litigious world one can not be too careful.

I do find it unfortunate a diver would make it to AOW class without being able to solve a basic skill like weighting. That is not scubajoh's fault but it does become her problem if she takes a "student" on an official "instruction dive".


"do it easy"... come on out to Idaho. Sounds like you are the kind of DM we could use more of out here.

"scubajoh"... come with him. Being willing to ask the questions means you're on the right road to becoming a great leader.

 

[do it easy]

"do it easy"... come on out to Idaho. Sounds like you are the kind of DM we could use more of out here.

You haven't seen me dive!

There is nothing wrong with "just an average divers" taking leadership roles. I encourage all divers to take an active role in planning and leading dives- even if it's a dive you do every weekend. Trade responsibilities with your usual buddies so that everyone gets a turn- it's a great learning tool.

 

[jeckyll]

An opinion from a new diver:
I haven't done my AOW (end of the month). And I'm diving as much as I can till then (9 dives so far, out every weekend). I wouldn't want some one as a buddy who can't figure out their weighting. That is definately something you'd want someone to know how to do.
I'm 6'1" and I use 28 lbs with a 7mm farmer john (34 - 36 lbs with a drysuit). So if it 'wasn't a big guy' then 28 lbs should have been enough (lots of shoulds).

I have 2 more questions:
1: Did the shop running the class provide the gear and if so did anyone check their weight before the dives?
2: Did no instructor / DM carry a bit of extra weight? Most of the dives I've done have been with rather experienced divers (they seem the most eager to get out diving) and there always seem to be a few extra pounds around.

A final comment. If I was weighed wrong for some reason, I would not 'pull myself down'. I'd get more weight and then give it another go

Just my $0.02

Bjorn

 

[carldarl]

You haven't seen me dive!

Yeah but with a lead/show by example attitude, ya can't be all bad. Besides, comin' from Chicagoland you'll be used to water you can't see through or skinny dip in but part of the year you can walk on.

You are right about sharing the lead opportunities. Now just convince my wife to take her turn. :14:

 

[scubajoh44]

I think the guy was too apprhensive to dive. It was one of those things I just made a judgement call on. The instructor wasn't out in the water with us, so he wasn't able to see how nervous or out of breath he was. I called it off. During the make up dive. (a freshwater altitude dive).... yes, I was told to take him by myself. He was calm and ready to go. He was wearing all the weight we had with us. In fact, we barrowed some from another group. We were wearing the same wet suit (3mm farmer). I was wearing 8 lbs. He was wearing 28 lbs. Yes, I had extra that I gave him. I knew he would "need" them. He was NOT underweighted. Still don't know what the problem was. I checked all his gear before the dive and at 10 ft. No air in his BC. I tightened his weight belt. I think he got nervous or something. (at first, I thought maybe he purposely dropped the weight belt....but who would do that at 60ft??) I was nervous about taking this person down........but (I guess my real question is....) as a future instructor I can't refuse taking every student down that makes me nervous. How do you handle these students?

 

[Ber Rabbit]

I think he got nervous or something. (at first, I thought maybe he purposely dropped the weight belt....but who would do that at 60ft??) I was nervous about taking this person down........but (I guess my real question is....) as a future instructor I can't refuse taking every student down that makes me nervous. How do you handle these students?

You are going to be surprised at what kinds of stuff people will do.

As a future instructor you CAN refuse to take people down who make you nervous. It's easier when you are the instructor in charge of the class because you can keep them in confined water until you are comfortable with their abilities no matter what class they signed up for. I always do a pool session with my AOW students especially if I wasn't their original certifying instructor. We sort out problems in the pool session and work on a few fun skills like shooting lift bags and hovering motionless. My AOW students do 4 weekends of diving and must accumulate 400 minutes of bottom time in the class to earn their certifications. The first day of diving is just to re-familiarize them with diving as most of them have usually been out of the water for a while. We go out and do two fun dives to get their weighting issues solved and re-familiarize themselves with diving cold water. Doing the "fun dives" takes a lot of stress away from the student, they are not expected to perform for a grade their first trip back to the water and it gives them a chance to relax and get into the "scuba groove".

Ber :lilbunny:

 

[scubajoh44]

OK, lets say that they do well in the pool sessions and we have to drive 4-5 hours to do our OW/AOW dive. If I get nervous with them and don't take them down...... that means they just don't get certified. Sounds like the right thing to do, but I wouldn't be certifying many this way.

(exclude: real panics where it is obvious they can't do it)