Donation of primary or secondary?

[boulderjohn]

So - again IMO - it requires a better trained diver with better routines than the average resort diver to give the diver a net advantage.

Donating the primary involves removing the regulator from your mouth and pushing it in the direction of the OOA diver. In the case of HOG looping, you have to duck your head slightly.

When donating a "golden triangle" regulator, you have to feel around blindly for the regulator, find it, remove it from its attachment point, and hand it to the OOA diver.

Which requires more training?

 

[Storker]

Whether you are talking about an AirII configuration or the bungeed regulator under the chin [...]

Frankly (as a purely personal opinion), I would never consider any other config than either a classic octo setup or a hog setup. Those are standardized; the former with the run-of-the-mill PADI OW diver, the latter among the tech and tech-wannabe crowd. Other configs increase the risk of a case of SHTF.

 

[boulderjohn]

I'm hazarding a guess that you're - again - alluding to the "primary grab" practice I've heard about but never experienced. To be honest, I've never had to donate gas in anger, either...

But no matter how I'm set up, I know where my secondary is. It may take me a half-second longer to grab my octo and stuff it in my gob than it would take me to grab my BO and stuff it in my gob. I can't see that there'd be a significant difference between those two situations.

I was talking about any practice that is different from your training.

When I first asked the question, the instructor said he requires the OOA diver to take two specific steps before the donation, and those steps end with the OOA diver waiting for a donation. The donor then reaches for the alternate and hands it over to that calm, cool, and collected OOA diver. In EVERY case I know of personally, the OOA diver reaches for the donor's alternate, sometimes signalling but usually not. If that happens, the worst thing the donor can so is to follow training and try to donate that alternate. In nearly every case I have seen where that happens in an OOA drill during the OW class, the two end up in something like a hand fight that results in a dropped regulator. The proper thing to do in that case is get out of the way and let the OOA diver take the regulator.

 

[Storker]

Which requires more training?

None and both. No matter your config, the location of your secondary should be ingrained in your muscle memory. That takes practice.

 

[boulderjohn]

None and both. No matter your config, the location of your secondary should be ingrained in your muscle memory. That takes practice.

Than why did you say that donating the primary "requires a better trained diver with better routines than the average resort diver to give the diver a net advantage"?

 

[Storker]

The proper thing to do in that case is get out of the way and let the OOA diver take the regulator.

So you're promoting secondary grab? Interesting. And me having the impression that BSAC had been extensively chastised online for teaching secondary grab...

 

[boulderjohn]

So you're promoting secondary grab? Interesting. And me having the impression that BSAC had been extensively chastised online for teaching secondary grab...

[SIGH]
Try reading it again.

I said that the OOA diver is going to do whatever the OOA diver is going to do, and it may not be what the donor was trained for. I never promoted it at all. If you take the time to read what I actually wrote rather than the straw man you are refuting, you will see that I also said that the configurations commonly used for primary donate eliminate that problem.

 

[Storker]

Than why did you say that donating the primary "requires a better trained diver with better routines than the average resort diver to give the diver a net advantage"?

Because you only described the actual donation situation, not the checks that are required to ensure that the primary and secondary hose - or the primary hose and the necklace - aren't tangled.

And yes, it can happen. I know that it can happen. I won't rule out the possibility that I know that because I'm an unusually clueless diver, though...

 

[Storker]

[SIGH]
Try reading it again.

OK.

The proper thing to do in that case is get out of the way and let the OOA diver take the regulator.

Looks awfully like "secondary (or primary, depending on your buddy's preferences) grab" to me.

 

[rhwestfall]