Donating to an OOA

[timegan]

Once while in a tech class, my buddy for some reason drifted below me, and our instructor, quick to pounce on this fault, turned off my air. I signaled my buddy, and he handed me his primary, reaching up through the bubbles of last inhalation to do so. I couldn't see the regulator.

No, I do not teach students to blow out a cloud of bubbles as they hand the regulator to the OOA diver.

After reading page one, seemed cut and dry. There seems to be no perfect way to donate. Do believe, to not purge....let them. If bolting up is what they want to do..try to keep em down OR...they will have 7' of travel...2>3 breaths then I pull back, or cut the hose n fold kink it. Surface as needed by the dive profile.

 

[DBailey]

Since I was taught this in my PADI OW (outside of the USA) and again 2 years later in PADI Rescue (in the USA), I assumed that it was part of the PADI protocol.

I have come across a couple instructors that teach it this way too. They have stated that it shows the OOA diver that it is an active air source.

Edit: I think it only serves to add bubbles to a potentially tense situation.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The one time I have had to donate my alternate I simply made myself vertical, made eye contact and let the recipient take the occy from it's holder. No problem. The recipient was an instructor, and the reason he needed my air? Another instructor was goofing around and turned my buddies air off. They thought it was a great joke. I thought they were a pair of @&$#heads. I turned his air back on and watched the pair of them closely for the remainder of the dive.
Minor hijack but I don't understand this kind of horseplay underwater, though I have seen it a lot - and
it has always been younger (<40yrs) men. If someone did that to me I'd flip my shiz bigtime.

Had an instructor do this to me once, a few years back ... at a time I was teaching a class. She was just out on a fun dive with some friends, saw me with a couple of divers, and decided to come mess with me. She swam up behind me, shut off my air and then swam away, thinking I wouldn't notice her. Fortunately, these two OW students were on the ball enough to donate, then sit calmly while I got my own air back on. Needless to say, I wasn't very pleasant when I discussed it with that instructor later on. We don't speak to each other much since then ... I'm not a big fan of stupid underwater tricks ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added ----------

Thanks.

It takes a bit of reading to get through the rationale to the clearly stated portion near the end, but here it is:

a. The BSAC Diver Training Programme clearly states the technique of training students as both donor and receiver. The instructions for the configuration and technique of teaching ‘Alternative Supply’ are consistent for all of the BSAC diving grades.

Ocean Diver – Basic Skills, states:

"teach for the more real situation of the recipient taking the donor's AS from its stowage”​

I disagree with this rationale, as it assumes the recipient will know better than the donor where and how the AS is stowed, and will be of a calm enough state of mind to take it without endangering the donor in the process.

As a donor, I want to be the person making the decision which regulator the recipient is going to get, and making that regulator more immediately available to the recipient than the one I want to be breathing from. In effect, I want to be extending the donating regulator out where it will be the most accessible reg for the recipient ... so there's no doubt which one they're going to reach for. Leaving the decision up to the recipient introduces uncertainty into the exchange process that doesn't need to be there, and increases the likelihood that they'll take the one you're breathing from.

Logically, the donor is going to be in a better position and frame of mind to control the regulator exchange than the recipient ... and should be the initiator of the exchange.

This is but one of several differences I have with BSAC positions ... then again, I have several differences of opinion with how my own agency wants me to train them as well ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

I have come across a couple instructors that teach it this way too. They have stated that it shows the OOA diver that it is an active air source.

Otherwise the OOA diver would assume that you are offering a non-working reg to them and would refuse to take it.

 

[windapp]

The one thing you can do to help is be sure to hand the regulator to be person in the correct orientation so that it won't still be full of water after after they purge it.

 

[supergaijin]

I have experienced a couple of OOAs and it really depends on the situation. Helpful eh?

One for example was a bolting diver on a check dive. Mask clearing and then doing the whole 9 yards, mask off, reg out and bicycling for their life to the surface. In that situation my purging reg was introduced fairly firmly in to their mouth. It was a reaction and after thinking about it a lot, I think it was the right one as there was no way this guy was thinking to purge a donated reg after he had just spat his own out. Maybe this doesn't qualify as a 'real' OOA but I include it as a response to the ' to purge or not to purge' question. Again, my answer is: it depends.

Another OOA was signalling OOA and I swam to him with the octopus extended. His tank was turned off. (Father and son Master Scuba Divers from the UK) I signalled to the father to come over, and then turned his air on as well

I myself ran out of air. First noticed it was difficult to breathe, weighed up options, found restaurant staff diver in another group, by that stage I was OOA. Signalled and grabbed his alternate.

I have never had someone rip the primary from my mouth, or seen it happen during a dive, or worked with anyone else who has had this experience. It could well happen, but IMO it seems unlikely enough to happen to justify the inter-agency bickering that can go on sometimes.

If someone did rip my primary out, I hope I would have the presence of mind to take my octopus. If the OOA diver firstly stole my reg, then managed to wrap both my arms together... well, there may well be a bit of struggling going on, potentially a raised knee to the goolies or a Liverpool kiss? (Joke... but serious- gotta do what ya gotta do)

 

[denisegg]

My son and I were coming up the anchor line from the Oriskany at a depth of about 60 ft. A guy who was on our boat but not buddied with us had his mouthpiece come off his regulator. He didn't realize it and was breathing with just the mouthpiece in his mouth and began instantly breathing in water and looked at my son and snatched the reg from my son's mouth. My son calmy got his own octo and put it in his mouth and then proceeded to show the other guy what had happened. The guy then took his own octo and gave my son back his primary.
I couldn't believe how quickly that guy grabbed that reg out of my son's mouth without even trying to get his own octo or signaling OOA. And no, he didn't purge the reg before putting it in his mouth. I guess he already had a mouth full of water by then so it was a moot point.

 

[Kevrumbo]

I had a panicky "Low-On-Air" Airshare in which the diver I donated my 7' primary long-hose to rejected the regulator because it was "full of water" (as later related to me on the surface), and the diver switching back to his own reg.

I calmly showed the long hose reg in his face, pointed to and pressed the purge button, took some breaths from it, and then presented my SPG reading 190 bar as well . . .he took the long hose again this time no problem, and we ascended to a safety stop at 6m. (For some reason, his tank wasn't refilled between dives, and he didn't bother to check his starting pressure before jumping in. . .~!)

Anyway, I still wonder what would've happened if this diver was totally out-of-gas and did what he did . . .(and what I would have done).

 

[DevonDiver]

I don't see the fuss. There are two skills discussed here - (1) Obtaining an AAS and (2) Donating an AAS.

The former is taught to OW students.

The later is taught to Rescue students... it is an assistance.

There is nothing stopping a pre-Rescue certified diver attempting an assistance, but that should not be expected of them. In contrast, any OW certified diver should be expected to have competence in obtaining and using an AAS for themselves.

OW students are taught to obtain an AAS, not to grab anything at random. They are taught a specific and methodical procedure for doing so, which includes signalling, establishing physical contact with the donor, clearing and breathing from the AAS. The donor is likewise taught a specific procedure for allowing that to happen.

Obtaining an AAS depends on several factors, all of which are covered in OW class and work efficiently when properly applied: the AAS needs to be secured in a 'triangle' formed by the mouth and lower ribs of the diver (including in the diver's mouth for primary donation), it should be conspicuously marked...and the use of, access to and function of that AAS should be incorporated within the buddy-check procedure.

A properly trained diver, certified in the spirit of 'mastery', should have the psychological control to act as a donor - coping with a 'snatched' regulator without panicking. Likewise, a properly trained diver should also have the psychological control to maintain calm when faced with short-term air deprivation.

If either expectation is not present, it cannot be attributed towards a failure of AAS protocol or equipment design. It is a failure of training (certification below standard) and/or a failure of the diver to apply training. Those are the issues to be addressed IMHO.

 

[boulderjohn]

I only know of a handful of actual OOA incidents either through being near the event (never actually saw it) or having a friend who was near the event. In every case the OOA diver did not signal but reached for and took the alternate second stage. I don't know of any actual study on what is most likely to happen in such cases.