Doing it Ridiculous

[MXGratefulDiver]

Let me give another example - one that actually happened here.

Guy in a tiny boat suiting up to dive. Larger boat passes by, and he gets tossed over the side by the wake of the larger boat after losing his balance.

He wasn't planning to enter the water yet, so the drysuit and wing weren't inflated. The air wasn't on. Steel tank. He sank. He drowned.

It would've been useful to reach that valve.

Addendum: This is what I get for responding to a post on page 4 of an 8 page thread...I'm discussing a topic the thread has moved passed, killed, buried, and dug up again for fertilizer. Oh well, time for bed. :zahn:

I'll give you another ... happened here in the summer of 2003.

Guy suits up for a shore dive, manually inflates his BCD to "save air" for the dive, and surface swims out to a buoy. Him and his buddies all descend.

Guy had forgot to turn on his air. Buddies all blast to the bottom without paying attention to each other. Guy realizes his air isn't on, tries to surface, struggles for a minute or two, sinks and drowns ... despite the fact that he had a full tank of air on his back.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TCDiver1]

See, just like the players, you Dead Things fans are all old! :11:

Just remember to respect your elders, pup.

 

[rmannix]

it be easier to just reach back and turn the valve on?

With proper technique and training, given the facts, it would have been easier to turn air on.

the fact was said diver was not prepared to enter the water.
we don't know where his reg was, could have been between his back and backplate.
First priority should have been getting to the surface.

I have never seen an o-ring (DIN or yoke) fail while in use. They fail when the air is turned on. Much easier to fix before donning gear. Preferably before suiting up, tho not always possible diving from a small inflatable. That is proper technique and training.

 

[MikeFerrara]

the fact was said diver was not prepared to enter the water.
we don't know where his reg was, could have been between his back and backplate.
First priority should have been getting to the surface.

A number of divers have died because they got in with their air off and couldn't get to the surface. There are, of course, two lessons there...don't be too heavy AND be able to turn your air on!

Reg between his back and plate? Maybe but when I'm not wearing my rig the long hose is coiled and the second stage is clipped to the right shoulder d-ring so if the thing is on me I WILL be able to get to the reg. I can even breath off it without unclipping it. Dangling regs can be all kinds of bad news.

I have never seen an o-ring (DIN or yoke) fail while in use. They fail when the air is turned on. Much easier to fix before donning gear. Preferably before suiting up, tho not always possible diving from a small inflatable. That is proper technique and training.

I have absolutely seen yolk orings fail while in use UNDER WATER though I have not seen a DIN fail in the water. In fact it happened to a student in the very first OW class that I ever taught. That was the first time that I that I'd seen it but what an initiation! 99% of all my stuff in DIN and I don't care to use yold connections at all. While you usually suirvive using them, they aren't as robust as DIN, I see no advantage to them and I think they should just go away.

With a blown oring there's no insurance that you'll get much gas to the reg no matter what you do with the valve.

Why all this resistance to being able to reach your valve? Must be a lot of divers out there who can't and really want to believe that it's not important.

 

[MikeFerrara]

How about the guy on the west coast just in the last year or so? The one where his buddy turned his air off thinking it would make it easier to connect the inflator hose. The guy sunk and drowned. As I recall he didn't have his fins on either as he was just getting in but you shouldn't really need fins to dive anyway. There are lots of ways that could have been avoided but being able to turn his air on would have gotten him out of it anyway.

 

[Randy43068]

the fact was said diver was not prepared to enter the water.
we don't know where his reg was, could have been between his back and backplate.
First priority should have been getting to the surface.

I have never seen an o-ring (DIN or yoke) fail while in use. They fail when the air is turned on. Much easier to fix before donning gear. Preferably before suiting up, tho not always possible diving from a small inflatable. That is proper technique and training.

with the first example, there isn't really enough info to make an informed decision. However, there is NO excuse for one not being able to turn on his own air while in water. I had to make some adjustments to my rig so I could reach my valve properly. I learned in fundies that I couldn't reach it, so I changed things a little. Moved my tank up a notch.

As as one of my safety checks before hitting the water, I breathe from one of my regs while watching my air gauge (usually my backup which is inches from my chin). If it drops, I know I have a problem.

You aren't seriously advocating a diver should NOT need to reach his air valve, are you?

 

[Kim]

Why all this resistance to being able to reach your valve? Must be a lot of divers out there who can't and really want to believe that it's not important.

Yes, I've been wondering about that as well. It's not like being able to reach your valve is adding any danger. I dunno....seems like a simple precaution to me. :06:

 

[MikeFerrara]

Here's another!

I was getting in the water in Lake Superior for a wreck dive. Seas were pretty rough. I had just switched tanks and, silly me, I failed to run my inflator hose through the bungie and jumped into the 5 or 6 foot 40 deg seas that way and the inflator hose somehow got wedged in behind me. My wife hadn't gotten in yet and I was having trouble getting to it. I made my way to the ladder and tried to explain the situation to some one on the boat. I climbed a step or two up the ladder so he could reach to give me a hand. We were both being bashed around pretty good and I had to keep the reg in my mouth at least part of the time because sometimes the ladder was under the waves. LOL Anyway he misunderstood what I was trying to say and thought I needed my air turned on. He then, ever so helpfully, reached over and shut my air off. Thinking I was likely all set I shoved away from the ladder trying to avoid have the boat beat me to death and just about then I realized what he had done. So...I reached back and turned it on and found my own inflator hose thinking it best not to let him touch me again or get near that pitching boat. LOL

I already mentioned the time an instructor checked my air and turned it off then back on 1/4 turn. Brathed fine at the surface but not at depth. that was the first time that the need to reach my valve ever occured to me but it was a rather sudden revelation type experience!

OH and contrary to popular beliefe, breathing on the surface while looking at your SPG doesn't mean CRAP! The valve can be partially off and still deliver enough gas at the surface to keep that needle rock solid but things may change with some depth! I ALWAYS...and I mean ALWAYS reach back and manually check each valve before descending no matter how many times it was checked before. All you need to do is bump something the wrong way for that valve to get moved. Reaching back and checking insures two very important things...that the gas is on and that I can reach it if I need to!

If you can't reach your valve go practice it. It's not that hard, doesn't cost anything and it just might save you some trouble some time. Beside, lifting that tank up where it belongs just might help your trim too. Nothing but good will come of adding this simple skill to your tool box.

 

[rmannix]

You aren't seriously advocating a diver should NOT need to reach his air valve, are you?

I'm advocating that in both situations described above that ditching the weights would have been preferred. Neither could have got that deep without air, unless they were busy trying to turn their air on.
Its wasted precious time in these 2 situations.

I frequently dive 2 hose regulators. Performance is severely diminished wearing the tank high enough to reach the valves. Doing a lot of photography I like to look up without the 1st stage hitting me in the head. Wearing the rig that high also makes it likely to get banged/snagged in an overhead environment.

 

[Kim]

Wearing the rig that high also makes it likely to get banged/snagged in an overhead environment.

We WERE talking about a simple rec dive. If you are going to bring overheads into this it's really simple. You have absolutely NO business being in an overhead if you can't reach your own valves...period.

It's also not necessary to have your tank so high that it bangs into your neck/head and still be able to reach the valves. Mine certainly doesn't.