Doing It Prejudiced

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This is amazing.

Kim has already stated no further interest in doing business with GUE. Yet everyone seems to continue to beat on him for smoking or not wanting to do business with GUE.

What's the point? He will quit smoking when and if he chooses to. You cannot make him do it nor can you convince him GUE is a good company to spend his money on.

Drop it already.
 
RichLockyer:
DIR itself has changed very little. There have been some refinements, as well as acceptance of some new technology such as HID primary lights, but as far as DIR-F, what I was saying is that the primary focus of the class is no longer as an introduction to DIR and technical diving... it is now a prerequisite for ALL other GUE classes.

This doesn't represent a change in DIR, only the goal of the class.

I wait to see what happens here. As i understand it GUE/DIR states that all stage tanks go left hand side to avoid fouling, and offest the weight of your Battery canister. Soooooo with batery canisters getting smaller, smaller and lighter, this is now nonsense, what happens next!!!!!!!!!
 
Albion:
I wait to see what happens here. As i understand it GUE/DIR states that all stage tanks go left hand side to avoid fouling, and offest the weight of your Battery canister. Soooooo with batery canisters getting smaller, smaller and lighter, this is now nonsense, what happens next!!!!!!!!!
With a helium bottom mix, a Luxfer 80 is only a pound or so negative... not much to worry about offsetting.
The nitrox bottles are heavier, but for cave diving, they are not carried below their MOD.
 
Did you read the Aesop Fable about the fox?
Fox can't reach grapes, fox says grapes are probably sour.

"I cannot obtain the object of my desire, therefore I will find fault with and condemn the object of my desire"

This "Sour Grapes" logic is exemplified by the original whiner.

Actually, I care not what the original poster thinks.
So. why do I post?

Because I think GUE and other dive organizations that exclude smokers have moral courage.
They know they are excluding a large segment of people and their money, yet they have the integrity to set and uphold standards they believe in.

This factor is commendable and if I consider taking classes to advance my training, I will consider it as a plus.

One dive organization, European Karst Plains Project, says on its website www.ekpp.org regarding membership;
"They are non-smokers, maintain a basic fitness and declare not to be a medical risk to themselves and fellow divers."

GUE is not alone, this is a trend whose time has come, hip hip hooray! and more power to any dive organization with the fortitude to do the same.

Perhaps when stating "smokers need not apply", the reasons should be spelled out in large bold letters, in an effort to avoid offense to people with twisted logic, who will say things like "prejudice", "it's like a religion", or do the "Sour Grapes" thing, or say any of the things they say that tend to polarize the dive industry.

Here are some sample reasons:

"We only train non-smokers, because medical reports indicate that smokers are at an increased and inordinate risk for diving related accidents."

"We are cultivating divers to be potential diving companions. We acknowledge information that indicates smoking increases medical risk and is contra-indicated for diving. We want all people we train to be safe, and we believe that smokers who dive place themselves and their companions in a category of higher risk. We prefer to avoid that risk."

I personally don't see there is a need for any organization to justify excluding smokers. But perhaps, precisely stating the reasons could help people who did not read, or did not learn from Aesop's Fables.

Finally, the "Doing It Prejudiced" title is inflammatory, falls in the category of troll bait, and should be replaced.

Regards, Mike
 
[/QUOTE]Finally, the "Doing It Prejudiced" title is inflammatory, falls in the category of troll bait, and should be removed.

Regards, Mike[/QUOTE]
Mike,

Well written and very clearly spells out your views. I would like to offer one point that may have been missed with all the posts that have been made to this long thread.

The original poster mistakenly thought GUE was a public not private orgainization. He was correct in being offended that any public organization could be offering training to the public, but be allowed to eliminate any segment of the population regardless of reason.

I'm not sure about your country, but, in our country it is illegal to eliminate any person or group from participating in any public activity for any reason.

That is not to say a private organization such as GUE cannot do so. GUE as a private company has the right to set the requirements of attendence in it's classes and receive the training available. The only limitation on them is that they cannot select specific individuals to apply their standards to, they must apply them to all applicants regardless of ethnic origin, age, sex, or physical ability. In fact, regarding the physical ability part, by law, they must make accomodations for handicapped persons, even those in wheel chairs. I do not know if GUE has classes for those in need of assistance or not, however.

Again, bottom line is, the poster did not know GUE was private. I to applaud any organization that has standards and sticks with them, as long as they apply them accross the board to all individuals.

Brian
 
minervamar:
Finally, the "Doing It Prejudiced" title is inflammatory, falls in the category of troll bait, and should be removed.

Regards, Mike
You are entitled to your views. I am entitled to mine. If I change my viewpoint through reasoned discussion and debate - I acknowledge that. This thread is about something quite serious: there are a lot of divers who DO smoke - they might also learn something here. I don't consider the thread title any more inflammatory than an organization that proclaims to all that they are 'Doing It Right' and so suggests that everybody else is wrong. That is what quite a few religions do - hence the comparison. This thread was started by me in the 'Whine and Cheese' section of this board - it didn't get moved here by a Moderator. As such - I don't see how you can refer to it as a troll - a whine, yes - but if you don't want to listen to people whining then what are you doing in this Forum??
 
FWIW - The Websters 1913 Dictionary meaning of prejudice:

2. An opinion or judgment formed without due examination;
prejudgment; a leaning toward one side of a question from
other considerations than those belonging to it; an
unreasonable predilection for, or objection against,
anything; especially, an opinion or leaning adverse to
anything, without just grounds, or before sufficient
knowledge.

I originally thought that at least some of this applied. Even now I think it's a close thing.
 
RichLockyer:
With a helium bottom mix, a Luxfer 80 is only a pound or so negative... not much to worry about offsetting.
The nitrox bottles are heavier, but for cave diving, they are not carried below their MOD.

Rich
I was thinking along the lines of carrying 50% and 100% stage
tanks, isnt it simpler and potetially safer to have them either side now, rich right / lean left etc
 
I knew it was only time until a dictionary was used to define prejudice. I was wrong in that I was expecting it to be used two days ago. :)
 
KimLeece:
This thread was started by me in the 'Whine and Cheese' section of this board - it didn't get moved here by a Moderator. As such - I don't see how you can refer to it as a troll - a whine, yes - but if you don't want to listen to people whining then what are you doing in this Forum??

I am expressing my views in this forum.

I do not object to this forum. Nor do I object to this thread.

I repeat, I object to the title. The title is inflammatory and qualifies as troll bait. The title should be replaced.

I calculated my previous post to be as diplomatic, and non personal as possible, while making the points I wished to make.

I find the thread, the forum, and SB to be intriguing and informative.

Did you misread? It's the title that's offensive. Not you.
Shall I give you the benefit of doubt? Do you not read the words correctly?

If your vision is good, and your reading comprehension is ok,
then, there you go again, now you are baiting me.

I don't like to be baited, but if I'm going to be baited, it may as well be a master who is doing the baiting.

Do you know the proper title for a person who is a master at baiting?
 

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