Does this BC product exist?

[Walter]

The "vest" is the only BC I've used so far. I've been reading about bp/wings and the mechanical engineer in my couldn't help but wonder if it is possible to get the best of both (less drag, but no tipping problem).

A BP/wing does not have less drag. Drag is reduced by making the BC more streamlined. Some BP/wings are streamlined, others are not. The same goes for vests, although streamlined vests are getting harder to find.

Things on a BC that create drag are padding (yes, I see padding on some BP/wings and most vests), cummerbunds (also found on some BP/wings and most vests) and a double bladder design (fabric covering over the bladder - often found on wings, not as common on vests these days).

None of these drag creators have to be on any BC. They are there because you've been sold a bill of goods and will pay extra for "features" that make a BC more difficult to use.

 

[Walter]

It does exist. The BCD Tim mentioned is the Oceanic Outrigger:

http://www.oceanicworldwide.com/p_bcs_outrigger.html

Diving with that monster must be like trying to swim while dragging a sea anchor. It's extremely bulky.

 

[MSilvia]

A BP/wing does not have less drag. Drag is reduced by making the BC more streamlined. Some BP/wings are streamlined, others are not. The same goes for vests, although streamlined vests are getting harder to find.

None of these drag creators have to be on any BC. They are there because you've been sold a bill of goods and will pay extra for "features" that make a BC more difficult to use.

While I have trouble imagining any BC being as streamlined as a backplate with a properly sized wing and hogarthian harness, I won't try to argue that BP/wing combinations are all inherently superior to jackets regardless of how they're configured. That's nonsense. The right BP/Wing/cylinder combination can make it easy to maintain a streamlined attitude in the water, but a skilled diver should be able to get the same results from any well-fitting quality BC with a little adjustment.

I think you make an excellent point about streamlining Walter... lots of the stuff sold as features is totally unnecessary, and the more stuff you have (like front airbags) the less streamlined you are likely to be. If you want streamlining, eschew bulk. In most cases, it's better to simplify by taking things away, not by adding them.

 

[djanni]

I've been reading about the different types of BCs and I understand that many people perfer bp/wings over vest because bp/wings have less drag. However when on the surface, the bp/wings type tends push the diver's face forward , but the vest will not.

Less drag... that's not necessarilly true. It's all in the mind of the beholder and there's little fact to back that up. Unfortunately you've asked this question in a forum where you're assured of not getting unbiased opinions.

Just read through some the other threads and take note of who the bp/w advocates are and prertty soon you'll come to realize it's always the same small group of individuals.

There nothing wrong with a bp/w and if your interested in tech diving of some sort; i.e., twin tanks, side mount and etc., the things a bp/w are designed for, then you'll find some people here who can help you. Just frame your question that way and you you'll get better answers.

BTW: Here's a pic of a Sherwood jacket style BC which defines STREAMLINED. A bp/w could only wish it was so streamlined.

​

 

[djanni]

A BP/wing does not have less drag. Drag is reduced by making the BC more streamlined. Some BP/wings are streamlined, others are not. The same goes for vests, although streamlined vests are getting harder to find.

Things on a BC that create drag are padding (yes, I see padding on some BP/wings and most vests), cummerbunds (also found on some BP/wings and most vests) and a double bladder design (fabric covering over the bladder - often found on wings, not as common on vests these days).

None of these drag creators have to be on any BC. They are there because you've been sold a bill of goods and will pay extra for "features" that make a BC more difficult to use.

Walter....... I think this picture pretty much defuses any arguments about streamlining and it's a jacket. Go figure, huh!!!

​

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Mom! Don's calling me names again!

 

[adrenalineblues]

However, I just recently bought my fiance an Halcyon Eclipse (with a 30# lift wing). Upon examining it her first comment was "Looks like it will float me on my face". I rigged her weight belt so it was comfortable etc and migrated the pockets a little around to the back of the hips... Amazingly enough all she had to do was lay back a little and it was almost like laying in a pool chair. We were both pleased with the way it performed. I think it is just a matter of proper trim and knowing you can "Lay back" on them and not be on your face...

YMMV...

 

[ChrisA]

However when on the surface, the bp/wings type tends push the diver's face forward , but the vest will not.?

You are in NJ right? NJ is not the tropics so I assume you have a fairly thick exposure suit. Either a 7mm wetsuit or a drysuit I'd guess. Assuming I've guesed the water temp right the suit itself is a maajor part of the system. So is your tank. Is it steel or aluminum. Again with cold water in NJ I assume you all use steel tanks. So if you have a steel tank and a 7mm suit you will be darn stable laying on your back. Kind of like sleeping on a water bed. Face planting just is not an issue and if it were you can arainge weights, tank height and so on to correct it.

With adry suit the issue completely goes away. At the surfacethe air bubble in the suit raises to the top and there is little "float" left in the legs.

All that said. in direct answer to your question, "Scuba L" (AKA "tripple L") does offer a hybred BC with bladders in both locations but I don't know if yo cam control where the air goes.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Walter....... I think this picture pretty much defuses any arguments about streamlining and it's a jacket. Go figure, huh!!!

​

I know it's been said before, but that photo ain't exactly a poster child for excellent application. Having a tank sagging down around my knees like that would bug me no end. Single tank straps are OK for AL80's, but they don't support larger steel tanks very well and have a tendency to loosen up at inopportune times. And the hose routing is hardly what I'd call "streamlined".

I know she's a professional DM in Cozumel and all ... and for that application it's obviously just fine. But like any piece of gear, you have to consider the application ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[cerich]

Diving with that monster must be like trying to swim while dragging a sea anchor. It's extremely bulky.

tell ya what Walter, it isn't and if you PM me your size and address I'll have a loaner sent for you to trial.