Does PADI frown on BP/W over "regular" bc?

[Hank658]

A BP/W is more complex because of its modular nature. You actually have to design the one right for your set up and know what everything is; even more so if you're talking an actual SS plate and STA because now you're at a point where you may not need any lead at all. Let's face it, new scuba students should have the ability to quickly ditch lead (or more probably have someone else ditch lead) to get positive. I've seen a new diver have a problem with more wing then she should have had, it tacoed and she could not get the air bubble under a dump valve. She also could not figure out how to put air in the wing at depth, which says a lot.

I think there is a lack of precision in this thread between an actual tech style BPW set up and a unitary wings style BC.

A "real" BC is more idiot proof. All you need to do is plug in one hose and two arms.

Well said! A jacket is a jacket. With all that is going on in an OW class- task loading, motor skills, learning curves etc assembling an appropriate BP/W would be just one more thing. After a student has completed the OW dives and familiar with the skills, as well as just being under water, then adding a new learning curve is not as daunting. As has been said many times- experience, experience and more experience!

 

[Nick_W]

What kind of BP/W are you guys thinking of that is so complex that a student wouldn't be able to figure it out? Why would they have to assemble the entire rig every class? Is there something I'm missing here?

 

[VooDooGasMan]

mn diver get th bp/w that you want, there is no discount for having your own BCD.

Take the class with there gear, After certified learn your bp/w, the problems you have read her put them into consideration. You must learn all gear for your new dive buddies will have different gear.

Remember if they lower the age to certify kids, scuba diving cant be that hard, right.

 

[Cave Bum]

I think the more important point that should be made here is whether or not you should be buying a BP/W (or any BC for that matter) before you're even certified. That's a lot of coin to drop before you even know if you're going to like it.

One of my open water students showed up with all his gear the first day of class. He wanted to get into cave diving but showed up with a Mares OW BC, a yoke regulator, split fins and pre '88 alum tanks. His brother-in-law who was also in the course, worked with me, and I'd told him to wait until after the class to buy gear. I got him set up with a Transpac (suitable for doubles but still usable for singles while he was learning), a DIN regulator, good tech fins and AL80 that he could switch to a stage later.

wow, thanks for all the replies everyone.

To clear some things up -
I have done a discover SCUBA course and one of those resort courses with two dives, and am planing to go again in a couple of weeks when on vacation. I want to get certified so that next time I can actually dive, and not just do these resort courses...

I dont plan on buying all the kit just yet, but I want to find a place that is BP/W friendly, as I feel thats what would work best for me... I like the simplicity and cleanliness of the set up.

I Looked at MDC sports after coming across a link off a DIR website... I will check them out.

No one told me I cant or that PADI won't let me, they just didn't seem too fond of the idea....

PADI standards don't care one way or the other. The bigger issue is what direction are you planning to go in your diving? BP/W configerations tend to be for tech diving, I would never start one of my open water students in one, nor would I dive my tech gear while teaching open water. Use the gear supplied for the class and learn how to use it then try different configerations, including a back plate and wing prior to buying. Another option is the Dive Rite Transpac which is a soft back plate with a seperate wing. I dive both the Transpac with a wing and a back plate with a wing. They both do equally well in my opinion.

 

[GFOX]

One of the instructors at my LDS told me they prefer students using a wrap around BC versus a BP/W because of new students over inflating the wing and having their faced pushed into the water. I would assume, as others have said, it makes it easier on the instructor, and also has something to do with what the LDS sells. In addition, I believe it is easier for a new student to use a wrap around BC. Keep in mind that it only takes a couple of classes to get certified, and it's probably a good idea to keep things as simple as possible. The awe, excitement, fear, and all those other emotions that kick in on a first dive can make performing what may seem like simple tasks quite difficult.

 

[Nick_W]

PADI standards don't care one way or the other. The bigger issue is what direction are you planning to go in your diving? BP/W configerations tend to be for tech diving, I would never start one of my open water students in one, nor would I dive my tech gear while teaching open water. Use the gear supplied for the class and learn how to use it then try different configerations, including a back plate and wing prior to buying. Another option is the Dive Rite Transpac which is a soft back plate with a seperate wing. I dive both the Transpac with a wing and a back plate with a wing. They both do equally well in my opinion.

BP/W configurations are not "tech" specific and I see no problems at all with starting one of my students in one. My point was the OP isn't certified. He doesn't even really know if he's going to end up sticking with diving for the long haul. I usually discourage people from buying expensive gear until they know for sure they're going to really use it.

 

[Nick_W]

One of the instructors at my LDS told me they prefer students using a wrap around BC versus a BP/W because of new students over inflating the wing and having their faced pushed into the water. I would assume, as others have said, it makes it easier on the instructor, and also has something to do with what the LDS sells. In addition, I believe it is easier for a new student to use a wrap around BC. Keep in mind that it only takes a couple of classes to get certified, and it's probably a good idea to keep things as simple as possible. The awe, excitement, fear, and all those other emotions that kick in on a first dive can make performing what may seem like simple tasks quite difficult.

That's a pretty simple fix. One, don't give your students giant 900 pound wings. Two, tell them before they even get in the water not to hammer down on the power inflator. And three, when that one guy who never listens does get in the water and hammer down on the power inflator, possibly shoving his face in the water, you flip him over and tell everyone that's why you don't do that.

Again, I'm not sure what kind of BP/W systems some of you are talking about that are so much more complex and confusing than a jacket.

Also, keep in mind that I am by no means a defender of the BP/W. I think they are recommended a little too much around here. But I'm not seeing any argument in this thread that seems like a reasonable reason not to use one in a class.

 

[Cave Bum]

BP/W configurations are not "tech" specific and I see no problems at all with starting one of my students in one. My point was the OP isn't certified. He doesn't even really know if he's going to end up sticking with diving for the long haul. I usually discourage people from buying expensive gear until they know for sure they're going to really use it.

They are 'tech specific' in as much as: 1) they are made for doubles, 2) you need an adaptor to use them with singles, 3) you have to attach a wing differently then you would if diving them with doubles.

 

[Nick_W]

They are 'tech specific' in as much as: 1) they are made for doubles, 2) you need an adaptor to use them with singles, 3) you have to attach a wing differently then you would if diving them with doubles.

There are a lot of different rigs out there. And there are quite a few that don't require and adaptor to use them with singles. There is nothing that makes a BP/W more "tech" than "rec" (by the way, I hate those terms, but I guess you have to have something to make the cave and wreck divers feel like the cool kids).

 

[Hank658]

As far as complicated goes, a BC from the shop's rental gear is complete. If it is weight integrated then the system is there. No choices about where to mount, what size pocket etc. No questions about wing size, tacoing etc. The jacket will float you at the surface. Also, theoretically, each student is wearing close to the same gear, so the first buddy checks are easier as the gear is 'somewhat' familiar from putting it on themselves. Now don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of BP/W, but IMHO, let's get them in the water and comfortable first. Once that happens then we can begin to coach and advise on the different types of gear. They will also have a baseline of experience to measure new styles/configurations against.

Just my .02!!