Does it make sense to enroll in a Divemaster course with no intention to work with?

[Blackcrusader]

Don't want that kind of responsibility, for random once a year divers that tend to know nothing... no thanks

I dive with people who are OW AOW who are once a year vacation divers. Some of the nicest people I have met. Yes they do not have the experience or skills of dive professionals. I do not expect them to rescue me if I had an issue. When I get to instabuddy with these divers I often show them things take some photos or videos of them on the dive. Most are pretty decent people and a dive briefed to mind the corals and reefs and not touch anything. Sometimes as they cannot identity the marine life they don't even see the camouflaged critters that can cause serious injury.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Unless they are fairly extensively medically trained, moreso even than myself, it's hard to see what capabilities a DM has that an average human does not.

They have a DM card they can wave around for attracting attention.

 

[Fin kicker]

I don't understand all the hate for the DM cert. All education is worthwhile. Scuba seems to be the only sport, I know, where every opinion seems to be challenged, rather than supported. At least here on these boards.

There's a reason that the diving community is losing divers, it just seems to be too hard if you're new to find encouragement rather than skepticism.

Continuing education should be encouraged.

 

[Fin kicker]

How much is a DM with basic first aid training going to be able to do in that situation? If they are suffering from DCS they need an ambulance and the responders need to know where the chamber is. Where I am it's an hour an a half away, so really all a DM, professionally or otherwise, needs to know is how to dial 911 (or 999 or 112 or whatever). In the case of a prop strike, all a DM, or even me as an EMT, can do is apply pressure to try and control the bleeding and apply high flow diesel (drive fast to the ER. if the patient needs fluid resuscitation or stitches, those are paramedic level skills requiring two years of training.

Unless they are fairly extensively medically trained, moreso even than myself, it's hard to see what capabilities a DM has that an average human does not.

If you're diving in Bali, depending where, it could be off an outrigger with an outboard engine for example. This could be off an island. There is no boat captain, the locals are well meaning, but the nearest hospital could be 45 mins by Helicopter. So western expectations for Evac, need to suit the environment.

For example, road accident victims if they're lucky can be bundled into a Taxi, no consideration for spinal injuries, just in and off you go...

I've witnessed emergency management in both Bali, and Sulawesi. It's worth having a plan, but hey its just my opinion.

 

[Blackcrusader]

I don't understand all the hate for the DM cert. All education is worthwhile. Scuba seems to be the only sport, I know, where every opinion seems to be challenged, rather than supported. At least here on these boards.

There's a reason that the diving community is losing divers, it just seems to be too hard if you're new to find encouragement rather than skepticism.

Continuing education should be encouraged.

DM Cert is great if you want to be a working DM. I don't so have no interest in the DM cert. If I needed the DM bling I could go to Thailand and get a DM cert in about 2 weeks.

But one should not think that divers cannot safely plan a dive because they do not have a DM Certification or that they even need a DM to help them plan a dive.

 

[Blackcrusader]

If you're diving in Bali, depending where, it could be off an outrigger with an outboard engine for example. This could be off an island. There is no boat captain, the locals are well meaning, but the nearest hospital could be 45 mins by Helicopter. So western expectations for Evac, need to suit the environment.

For example, road accident victims if they're lucky can be bundled into a Taxi, no consideration for spinal injuries, just in and off you go...

I've witnessed emergency management in both Bali, and Sulawesi. It's worth having a plan, but hey its just my opinion.

yeah my first vacation in Bali was in 1981. Not taking outriggers for boat diving in Lombok

Will be doing private dives without a guide at the liberty wreck. At some other sites we will use a guide.
Death is a part of life, the final frontier.

 

[Wibble]

I don't understand all the hate for the DM cert. All education is worthwhile. Scuba seems to be the only sport, I know, where every opinion seems to be challenged, rather than supported. At least here on these boards.

There's a reason that the diving community is losing divers, it just seems to be too hard if you're new to find encouragement rather than skepticism.

Continuing education should be encouraged.

Doing a DM isn’t like doing any other course in scuba. It’s like a mini-apprenticeship to the dive shop. Most skills learned aren’t specifically related to safety nor in-water dive skills.

 

[Cthippo]

I don't understand all the hate for the DM cert. All education is worthwhile. Scuba seems to be the only sport, I know, where every opinion seems to be challenged, rather than supported. At least here on these boards.

There's a reason that the diving community is losing divers, it just seems to be too hard if you're new to find encouragement rather than skepticism.

Continuing education should be encouraged.

That is the culture of this board and, sadly, many online communities. Fortunately online is not real life. Unfortunately, finding good communities usually means some sort of paywall or other barrier to entry.

I don't hate any certification, but I am very dubious about how diving as a sport or industry or whatever this is we do regards certifications.

Part of my job is evaluating new firefighters when they complete their initial training and are seeking to be certified. When I certify someone all that means is that on that particular day they could complete the skills with a minimal level of proficiency. Does it mean they will ever perform the skill that way again? Probably not, because some of the skills are not consistent with how different departments operate in the real world. Does it mean they can only perform skills up to their level of certification? Nope. If someone is not certified, does that mean they can't fight fires and rescue people? Nope. Many departments choose not to have their members certified and do their own training in-house.

In diving we have created this mythos that no one knows anything unless they have a C-card that says they know it, and then we somehow expect the training agency to provide some sort of oversight of them once they have it. The SCUBA Police don't exist, but instead we have deputized dive shops and operators to be vigilante enforcers of limits.

To bring it back to your original question, in my mind a DM C-card means that on one particular day that person demonstrated minimal competence in all the relevant skills for the position. That doesn't mean they are competent today, or that they remember any of it. It also doesn't mean that someone without a card can't also perform all those skills.

All certification means is that on this particular day the candidate performed the skills with at least minimal proficiency. Nothing else.

 

[Wibble]

Unused skills atrophy with time.

With scuba we have the term "dived up" meaning that the person's been working up their diving skills as if rehearsing for a concert.

The Divemaster certification is much maligned as it's a bit of a general purpose assistant role. Somewhat of a Jack of all trades and master of none. They have EFR skills, but aren't paramedics. They have dive leading skills but aren't trainers. They can plan dives, but not expeditions. Etc.

 

[DanBMW]

I didn't read all of the comments, but there is nothing wrong with additional training. Determine your expectations and move from there. Advanced, Rescue, Cavern and Nitrox at a minimum. My DM was beneficial and no reason to not take it too.