Does fundies teach nitrox?

[Atom]

Will a GUE Fundie card be recognized when you want to get nitrox fills? I guess in Florida there's probably enough GUE divers that dive shops know what it is, but that may not be the case everywhere, especially since it's not a "nitrox something" card.

 

[Rainer]

It says right on it that the diver is trained and certified for 32% nitrox. I've never had any of my GUE cards questioned in the US or MX.

 

[gsk3]

It's an interesting question. I am sure if I ever get denied for Nitrox fills because the card isn't recognized I will start an angry post on SB.

It does say right on the back though, "Certified to use 32% Nitrox" or something like that.

 

[Fredrik Taule]

Tim - Bob is quite big on trimix at 90feet or so, but GUE itself seems pretty firm about 100 feet being the depth beyond which it is necessary.

GUE does not teach best mix, because as an organization it doesn't think it's a good idea. The most cogent argument here seems to be "what happens if one site is bad and you have to go dive a different site at a different depth?"

MOD, pPO2, EAD all get taught, but essentially the calculation is already done for you, since the variable of FO2 is eliminated--it's always 32%. They also teach pulmonary and CNS clocks, again with 32%.

I have to say, while I've read Bove & Davis cover to cover, having all the shortcut formulas that Fundies gives such that you really can calculate things out in your head is kind of liberating.

If I can add a bit to that.
We do provide the students with all the tools.
Calculating pO2, calculating "best mix" and calculating "MOD" based on the parameters you have at hand or want to utilize.
The material also include an EAD table.

So if anyone after the class wants to go out and do their "best mix" nitrox dive to 130 feets and think a max pO2 of 1,5 is a great idea, he or she has the necessary tools.
If anyone after the class asks for a 32% fill, but get a 36% and want to calculate the MOD of that gas based on whatever preference he or she has and check what their new NDL(s) is for the dive they are planning, the tools are taught.

The specific examples used and the "calculation tasks" that are handed out in that process probably varies between us instructors. But I believe that similar to my take on what we are teaching when these calculation tools are being covered, we share the same understanding that we're explaining and want the students to understand how these calculations are done and what they are good for.
And that this part of the class is not somewhere we push hard to make a case for standardizing on 32% for dives in the 0-100 foot range.

Though as most participants figure out for them self, and the instructor probably points it out - using standard gasses is just so much more practical and the benefit of the "whole holistic thing" outweighs any theoretical smallish benefit that chasing optimized this or that can give us.

We want people who seek out GUE training to decide for them self that following the various standardization recommendations, (that be either gas, equipment configuration or whatever), is something they want to do because they have been explained what we see as the benfits of doing so are - and they see the same benefits them selfs. Not because they are forced to, since we took away tools

The same goes for gas calculations in a Tech 1, where you during class are given the tools to go out and calculate your 200 foot dive based on a best mix 120 foot END and a max pO2 of whatever you feel like - if that is your thing.

We don't police anyone or even want to interfere with anyones practices even if we could. What people take away from the class and how they want to utilize their (hopefully) new knowledge and skills is entirely up to them.
Obviously we do try to make a good case for the holistic system that is promoted through GUE, but it's entirely up to each and everyone to adopt one, two, most, all or none of the things we recommend.

Best,

Fredrik

 

[TSandM]

We want people who seek out GUE training to decide for them self that following the various standardization recommendations, (that be either gas, equipment configuration or whatever), is something they want to do because they have been explained what we see as the benfits of doing so are - and they see the same benefits them selfs. Not because they are forced to, since we took away tools

The same goes for gas calculations in a Tech 1, where you during class is given the tools to go out and calculate your 200 foot dive based on a best mix 120 foot END and a max pO2 of whatever you feel like - if that is your thing.

We don't police anyone or even want to interfere with anyones practices even if we could. What people take away from the class and how they want to utilize their (hopefully) new knowledge and skills is entirely up to them.
Obviously we do try to make a good case for the holistic system that is promoted through GUE, but it's entirely up to each and everyone to adopt one, two, most, all or none of the things we recommend

Beautifully said, and this has certainly been my experience of my GUE classes.

 

[lamont]

We don't police anyone or even want to interfere with anyones practices even if we could. What people take away from the class and how they want to utilize their (hopefully) new knowledge and skills is entirely up to them.
Obviously we do try to make a good case for the holistic system that is promoted through GUE, but it's entirely up to each and everyone to adopt one, two, most, all or none of the things we recommend.

I think the biggest confusion is coming from the language on the back of the fundamentals c-card, where it specifies "trained in... 32% Nitrox". Which implies not being trained in 31% or 33%, however silly that might be. It would make things clearer to drop the "32%" out of the fundamentals card. That would turn it into a "Nitrox" card. Leave the implementation of standard gases to the card holder.

(Or use language like "Hyperoxic Nitrox up to 40%" to distinguish the 21%-40% range).

 

[ScubaFeenD]

I think the biggest confusion is coming from the language on the back of the fundamentals c-card, where it specifies "trained in... 32% Nitrox". Which implies not being trained in 31% or 33%, however silly that might be. It would make things clearer to drop the "32%" out of the fundamentals card. That would turn it into a "Nitrox" card. Leave the implementation of standard gases to the card holder.

(Or use language like "Hyperoxic Nitrox up to 40%" to distinguish the 21%-40% range).

I admit that my confusion stemmed from that somewhat. I am still on the outside really (for a week and a half longer) looking in at the GUE community. While i fully appreciate the diving philosophy and mentality, I am stil unsure how they take stance on particular subject. In this instance, how they take a stand on standard mixes was a bit unclear in my mind, but was cleared up and summarized very nicely by Fredrik. I mean, in my head, only supporting 32% would imply that certain corners could be cut in teaching with the gas, because if the agency doesn't support the use of other gases, then why should they bother to necessarily teach all of the theory; its stupid to not teach it, but then again not everything is done in the best way in the dive industry.

I am very glad to see a more clear explanation of the mentality of the GUE instructors. It is refreshing to read about it, and it only reaffirms my desire to learn through this agency's instructors. Even though i subscribe to the mentality and teaching, hearing over and over and over and over how militaristic, nazi-istic, evil and regimented DIR is (or at least that people think it is) must be having a subconscious effect on me.

thanks for clearing up the confusion here.

 

[TSandM]

I think you will be very pleased with the instruction you receive through GUE. Their academic curriculum is extensive, thorough and aimed at adult learners. It is in no way dogma or indoctrination, and there are no shortcuts (as you will realize at 11 pm each night of class, when you finally wind things up )

 

[ScubaFeenD]

Their academic curriculum is extensive, thorough and aimed at adult learners. It is in no way dogma or indoctrination, and there are no shortcuts (as you will realize at 11 pm each night of class, when you finally wind things up )

Awesome. I would rather have to work my butt off and walk away confident that I was presented with everything, than have it be easy and have to find the information myself. Bob doesnt seem like a shortcut kind of guy anyway

 

[Atom]

It says right on it that the diver is trained and certified for 32% nitrox. I've never had any of my GUE cards questioned in the US or MX.

It's an interesting question. I am sure if I ever get denied for Nitrox fills because the card isn't recognized I will start an angry post on SB.

It does say right on the back though, "Certified to use 32% Nitrox" or something like that.

Thanks for clearing that up, that's what I was actually trying to know.