Does anyone push their purge button on OOG drills?

[hobodiver]

He was hitting the purge as I was trying to take the regulator from him, and continuing to hit it while I was attempting to insert it into my mouth.

So he was pushing it, letting go, pushing it, letting go, etc.? I can see how that would be a problem.

I was taught to push it in, and continue purging until they had it in their mouth.

I can totally see a paniced OOG diver forgetting to purge/clear the regulator, and just inhaling a mouthful of water.

 

[MtnPlayVA]

In my rescue class, we were taught to present a second and purge it at the same time. An OOG diver will see the bubbles from the second and grab on to it, as the only thing in their paniced mind is air.

I was taught this in Rescue also. It did cause me to choke though when I was pretending to be the OOA diver so I'm not sure I would automatically do it if I was in that circumstance. I guess it would depend on how panicked and out of control the person was.

 

[Gombessa]

In my rescue class, we were taught to present a second and purge it at the same time. An OOG diver will see the bubbles from the second and grab on to it, as the only thing in their paniced mind is air.

My thoughts are an OOA diver in a panic is not really paying attention to what is bubbling, but rather where the closest regulator is, whether in your hand, mouth or clipped off. The "he'll see the bubbles and go for that" just sounds like it's half wishful thinking and half "MOF is a sign that you're in distress."

 

[bamamedic]

So he was pushing it, letting go, pushing it, letting go, etc.? I can see how that would be a problem.

I was taught to push it in, and continue purging until they had it in their mouth.

I can totally see a paniced OOG diver forgetting to purge/clear the regulator, and just inhaling a mouthful of water.

I don't remember if he was repeatedly pushing the purge, or just pushing and holding it in, but either way, it would have still been an issue, I think.

Hard to get your mouth around a reg when your dive partner has the purge depressed, and it would only take a little bit of water to cause a laryngospasm.

I think it works out just fine to present the reg and let them put it in their mouth...I hold the reg by the hose, so the OOG diver has access to the purge him/hersef. If the OOG diver is panicky, forcing them to get a purging reg into their mouth would probably just exacerbate the situation.

 

[CamG]

Greetings Graeme Tolton and this is very interesting and distressing at the same time.
The incident as described sounds like it was heading south fast in to a crazed panic.
In this situation it is very hard to know just what exactly we would have done differently or not done at all. When panic takes over the rational rules are out.
Early in my diving my air was shut off by a new diver for a joke. This was a come to Jesus moment for he and myself. After the exhale and no air to inhale, I gave the signal OOA and share air while all the time swimming to his alternate. This is where the fun begins.....his octo hose was under his chest strap and not free for me to get to.
No air, brain telling me to breath, and finally I just grabbed the alternate turned it around and stuck it into my mouth. As others have mentioned I inhaled water and air at the same time triggering the reflex. Once I choked through this, I regained my regulator and it worked? I then switched back to my regulator and finished gaining breathing control. By this time the rest of the team was there and we ascended form 40' did our safety stop and had a very interesting talk on the surface.
I am so very glad to be diving fully redundant now and look back at the experience and the lessons I learned. Thankful for the training I received and mentoring that has made me the diver I am today. You can never substitute training and mastery of skills and dive buddies that demand your best.
The incident that claimed this diver was a result of multiple stressors that lead to full blown irrational panic. This is a instructors worst nightmare all the training, skills, are out the window. This is why Instructors, and DM's learn to recognize early signs of stress and intervene to break the cycle that leads to panic.
No one wants or wishes these things to happen and the debrief of this incident can teach us to be even more vigilant and prepared.
The purge ? for me depends on the situation, environment "Cold Water", and buddy.
I would only in emergency as a last resort in cold water because it can trigger a free flow at depth.
As far as purging for a distressed diver this is a emergency technique that has merit.
I hope and pray for all the instructors out there that this would never come to pass that situations would never get this far down the panic path.
In the end one can only try to help a panicked diver but can not put yourself at risk so that a rescue doesn't turn into a double.
My hopes and prayers go out to both parties involved in this accident.
CamG Keep diving....keep training....keep learning!

 

[RubberDucky]

I learned a hard lesson about purging a regulator this past August, when I was taking my cave training. While diving in a cave with a fair bit of flow, and breathing hard due to exertion, I donated my primary to my dive buddy and put my backup in my own mouth. Without purging, I inhaled ... and a tiny amount of water went down my windpipe, causing my larynx to spasm shut.

Hi NWGratefulDiver,

I believe swallowing a few times in rapid succession is supposed to help with this particular issue.

I've accidentally had a bit of practice with this by drinking water out of a large pitcher. For the first month or so that I started doing this, I would inevitably get some water down the "wrong tube", causing breathing difficulty. Why anyone would continue to do this intentionally could perhaps only be understood by other divers. Each time it happened, I would try what was recommended on the PADI OW and YMCA manuals, which is to try swallowing a few times quickly. I guess this helps force the water out of the way, making room for normal breathing again. I've gotta say, I still hate that feeling, but I'm more comfortable with it now than I've ever been in my life. Used to be that I would cough spastically, because that's just the way it was. Now I know to swallow a few times, try to inhale, and repeat until I can breathe normally again.

I'm probably not teaching you anything new given your credentials, but perhaps this may be useful to someone else reading this thread.

As an aside, I went through a brief phase of not purging when replacing my reg (such as after inflating my SMB). After taking in some water once, I will never again intentionally deviate from what I was taught tongue on roof of the mouth, purge, slowly inhale.

Edit: To contribute to the actual topic at hand: I would donate my primary reg, since it is known to be working (I know the subject of which reg to donate is a hotly debated topic), and let the recipient do the purging. Perhaps if they were visibly panicked I would purge for them, since a panicked mind isn't firing on all cylinders.

 

[RJP]

I was taught to push it in, and continue purging until they had it in their mouth.

Not sure who would teach that way, or why. Was it here in NJ/northeast? In cold water it's a great way to cause a free-flow.

 

[Blackwood]

Not sure who would teach that way, or why. Was it here in NJ/northeast? In cold water it's a great way to cause a free-flow.

Not to mention a gigantor waste of gas.

 

[MtnPlayVA]

Not sure who would teach that way, or why. Was it here in NJ/northeast? In cold water it's a great way to cause a free-flow.

I didn't think to question it when I was in my class but it was 46 degrees when I was taking the class so I'd classify that as cold water! Like I said in an earlier post, it caused me to choke when it was given to me being purged so I pretty much made up my mind that I wouldn't do that unless the person was so freaked out that I had to. Me choking during the class did give me an example of how strong the "I want to be on the surface" instinct can be though. I'll have to ask the instructor why he teaches it that way. My rescue class was PADI if that makes a difference.

 

[hobodiver]

Not sure who would teach that way, or why. Was it here in NJ/northeast? In cold water it's a great way to cause a free-flow.

Yes, in the NE. The class was taught by Lifeguard Systems.