There ye go with those pesky facts again, Doc...DocVikingo:
Sheeeesh!
Rick
Doctor told me I would explode.
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Sheeeesh!
Rick
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thank-you, DocV. I was hoping someone would pull those numbers.
on the asthma situation; once I was said to have asthma by an MD, on something. Since I have never had an attack, I personally do NOT answer questions with a yes on medical questionaires. People create a lot of chaos for themselves giving the full "organ recital" to every medical and insurance form put in front of them. I think its best to tell someone you are paying for a service only what you think they need to know. I cannot tell you how many people put the "possible hernia once twenty years ago" and
because of their love to discuss medical issues are not able to dive.
on the asthma situation; once I was said to have asthma by an MD, on something. Since I have never had an attack, I personally do NOT answer questions with a yes on medical questionaires. People create a lot of chaos for themselves giving the full "organ recital" to every medical and insurance form put in front of them. I think its best to tell someone you are paying for a service only what you think they need to know. I cannot tell you how many people put the "possible hernia once twenty years ago" and
because of their love to discuss medical issues are not able to dive.
There are two issues: One is that a person contemplating diving needs to know the risks involved in doing so with a given medical condition. Moderate to severe asthma with significant air-trapping in the lungs is a potentially lethal problem for a diver. The risk is not binary -- none or all -- but graded, increasing steadily as the amount of obstruction/severity of bronchospasm/frequency of symptoms increases. It seems to me that it would be well worth the time of a would-be diver with any degree of asthma beyond the "mild symptoms every few years" type, to get a formal evaluation using pulmonary function testing, in order to know what his risk actually is.
Then there is the issue of liability and the dive shop/instructor protecting themselves: All that is important to them is that they have exercised "due diligence" in detecting someone who they should have known should not dive. If you lie on the form, you protect them and put all the liability on your own shoulders. You won't be able to sue them when you get a pneumothorax on ascent
Regarding the intelligence of physicians -- there's a range, just as there is in anything else. The top of the bell-shaped curve is a little higher than the average population, so it is likely that a physician chosen at random is a little smarter than the average bear. There is a tail to the curve (in each direction!) and there are people who make it through medical school who are not very smart, but thorough, careful, and hard-working . . . and they make EXCELLENT physicians. There are also very SMART doctors who lack common sense, are inefficient or disorganized, or severely lack people skills. Some of them are not very good doctors at all (some are very good surgeons, though ) And almost ALL doctors are not very useful if asked to diagnose, prescribe or prognosticate significantly outside of their own area of specialty.
Divea-holic, thank you for the compliment!
Then there is the issue of liability and the dive shop/instructor protecting themselves: All that is important to them is that they have exercised "due diligence" in detecting someone who they should have known should not dive. If you lie on the form, you protect them and put all the liability on your own shoulders. You won't be able to sue them when you get a pneumothorax on ascent
Regarding the intelligence of physicians -- there's a range, just as there is in anything else. The top of the bell-shaped curve is a little higher than the average population, so it is likely that a physician chosen at random is a little smarter than the average bear. There is a tail to the curve (in each direction!) and there are people who make it through medical school who are not very smart, but thorough, careful, and hard-working . . . and they make EXCELLENT physicians. There are also very SMART doctors who lack common sense, are inefficient or disorganized, or severely lack people skills. Some of them are not very good doctors at all (some are very good surgeons, though
) And almost ALL doctors are not very useful if asked to diagnose, prescribe or prognosticate significantly outside of their own area of specialty.Divea-holic, thank you for the compliment!
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Its not that I think people should lie. I agree with everything you are saying. My problem is YOU the diver are in the best position to make that decision. The Instructors and DM's I know aren't in a position to decipher all the graduations of asthma. So, what I am saying is get medical advice and then answer the form with the thought in mind, that if you write asthma, hernia etc. you are not diving today. But then I don't think in terms of suing an operator if I have a medical problem anyway. Honestly, there are people out there that will tell you about all their labor and deliveries if encouraged.
Some people understand the bell curve and distribution, some people don't. If you are giving information to someone who does not seem to....don't feed them information that will work against you.
Another thing that surprises me is how may dive professionals have a lot of advanced certs, tech this, tech that and then cannot calculate a tip if their life depends on it. I mean ..many cannot even calculate 10% and then double it. It really makes you wonder.
Some people understand the bell curve and distribution, some people don't. If you are giving information to someone who does not seem to....don't feed them information that will work against you.
Another thing that surprises me is how may dive professionals have a lot of advanced certs, tech this, tech that and then cannot calculate a tip if their life depends on it. I mean ..many cannot even calculate 10% and then double it. It really makes you wonder.
cyklon_300
Contributor
mdjh51:
worth what you pay for it. You really shouldn't be handing out silly blanket statements on asthma or any other medical condition. The diagnosis of 'asthma' covers an extremely broad range of respiratory symptoms and intensities.
I'm a life-long asthmatic (with severe symptoms in childhood that are now completely well-managed) and I dive my butt off with my respiratory specialist's (also an asthmatic diver) blessings.
Also, your sentiment that 'life is not worth it' is bollocks...diving plays a significant role in how I define myself. It is what I spent my disposable income on, it plays a critical role on where I travel, who my friends are, etc etc...for some, sitting on the couch in 'safety' is a pretty unfulfilling way to spend one's life.
I'll take the gamble, because life IS worth it.
Just a random thought: as someone who reads medical records all day long, I cannot tell you how often I see someone who thinks they have one condition and it turns out they actually have no clue. Some people just do not understand their own medical condition. For example, Patient Joe Blow tells me he has cancer. I get the medical records- no, biopsies show no malignancies. He had a benign tumor, or a hyperactive thyroid which required irradiation, or something else entirely. Poor Joe Blow really believes, though, that he has cancer and is dying.
Also, a lot of lay people have heard enough medical terms here and there to THINK they know what is wrong and self-diagnose: my kid has been coughing. I brought him to the doctor. He was given an inhaler. He must have asthma. The doctor never said asthma, no testing was done to prove asthma. But a layman sees an inhaler and thinks asthma. Or, on the other end of the spectrum, sometimes the doctor says its asthma without ever having done tests (tests are expensive). These symptoms look like asthma so it must be asthma. However, maybe the kid has just had a bad year for colds/ bronchitis, or has allergies.
My points are: Doctors do not always describe medical conditions to their patients sufficiently for the patient to fully understand. Patients often think they understand, but they do not. Some medical conditions have developed "urban definitions" which are inaccurate or incomplete, however they are generally accepted despite the inaccuracies.
I do not have any medical training, I just read the records all day. Everything I say is totally opinion.
Also, a lot of lay people have heard enough medical terms here and there to THINK they know what is wrong and self-diagnose: my kid has been coughing. I brought him to the doctor. He was given an inhaler. He must have asthma. The doctor never said asthma, no testing was done to prove asthma. But a layman sees an inhaler and thinks asthma. Or, on the other end of the spectrum, sometimes the doctor says its asthma without ever having done tests (tests are expensive). These symptoms look like asthma so it must be asthma. However, maybe the kid has just had a bad year for colds/ bronchitis, or has allergies.
My points are: Doctors do not always describe medical conditions to their patients sufficiently for the patient to fully understand. Patients often think they understand, but they do not. Some medical conditions have developed "urban definitions" which are inaccurate or incomplete, however they are generally accepted despite the inaccuracies.
I do not have any medical training, I just read the records all day. Everything I say is totally opinion.
I guess the doctors with the high IQ's are the "other" kind (PhD's).
Twenty years ago I had a medical situation while working on the Cousteau's Alcyone (topside, no diving at the time). It had all the symptoms of a stroke but since I was just 37 I kept on working the entire week the team was filming (despite a very weakened arm and slurred speech).
Finally a friend suggested I go to my doctor. He put me in the hospital and ran thousands of dollars of tests before releasing me with no diagnosis. A few months later I called him because I was still feeling weak. He replied "What do you expect after having a stroke?" He had never mentioned that while I was in the hospital or upon release. I'm reminded of the "why do you think they call it a practice" statement. I've actually done better self diagnoses than some of the doctors I've gone to. Ya just have to find a good one.
Twenty years ago I had a medical situation while working on the Cousteau's Alcyone (topside, no diving at the time). It had all the symptoms of a stroke but since I was just 37 I kept on working the entire week the team was filming (despite a very weakened arm and slurred speech).
Finally a friend suggested I go to my doctor. He put me in the hospital and ran thousands of dollars of tests before releasing me with no diagnosis. A few months later I called him because I was still feeling weak. He replied "What do you expect after having a stroke?" He had never mentioned that while I was in the hospital or upon release. I'm reminded of the "why do you think they call it a practice" statement. I've actually done better self diagnoses than some of the doctors I've gone to. Ya just have to find a good one.
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catherine96821:
Those aren't the droids you're looking for.
Terry
dpbishop
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RumBum:
I'm so disappointed, from your avatar I thought you were a bartender.
Perhaps what the doctor meant was "The distribution of intellegence amoungst doctors is the same as the general populace" which it is, but the range of that distribution is higher. (IQ of 108 - 129 according to some studies). The difference between 108 & 129 is pretty significant in a job that requires assessing a variety of vague & often conflicting symptoms to reach a proper diagnosis.
I'm a fallen-away Mensan, so I know a little bit about IQ.
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