Doc Deep dies during dive.

[wrybosome]

Yes, it happens, but if it's true that the Coast Guard has possession of the equipment, it's probably on its way to the Navy for analysis.

There was a DAN presentation by an NEDU investigator a few years back in which he went over the criteria by which the unit selects which accidents it will agree to investigate. And the answer was hardly any in the case of civilian accidents. It's been long enough that I forget his exact remarks but the video is on YT under DAN's upload list. Maybe some of the more knowledgeable posters here have some actual experiential knowledge they could share?

Hopefully the article is correct at least in that the USCG has the gear.


ETA: https://youtu.be/aT4eT6WC-R0

 

[Jax]

In perhaps another example of group think, Don Shirley noted after the incident that everyone seemed to be able to explain the chemical process that led to the body turning to soap and floating, but before the incident no one mentioned that it was a possibility.

Except, in this case, they were all blind due to their inherent ignorance. There was no input from within the group because they were out of their league in regards to knowledge and expertise. There's simply no culpability for anyone but Doc Deep and he paid for it dearly.

I am with John; that it was groupthink that led them to their blindness. As for not mentioning the body turning to soap - don't we all have 20/20 hindsight?

Groupthing - not by that name but the same - has been touted to military leaders to be aware of in their younger troops. The "pervasive" rape culture in universities and military units is blamed on the 'groupthink' that getting a body count of "lays" is a manly thing to do. We were instructed to put training into the context of "what if" . . . it were your sister? it were your cousin? it was your battle buddy who talked sh*t and was drunk out of his mind? You have to get the situation out of group think mode and into making it personal.

Posts like this are invaluable to less experienced divers like me, I'd never heard of HPNS til a few pages into this thread so went and educated myself, now I've learnt that compression arthralgia kicks in at depths I've already done and that rushing to shorten bottom time makes it worse. Time to find a decent book on the effects of diving deep(ish) I think. Thanks!

None taken, you're absolutely right altho in my defence it was on air so no helium... which has to be the the worst defence ever lol

It was a few 'trust-me' dives on the Coolidge, the deepest being 62m, I'd done tdi adv nitrox/deco proc and tdi adv wreck to prepare but being a 45m course I guess compression arthralgia wasn't considered a big concern - I was surprised to learn it can affect you from 60m, so I'm definitely going to do less trusting and more learning in future!

You're sounding like an awfully smart guy!

 

[Akimbo]

Posts like this are invaluable to less experienced divers like me, I'd never heard of HPNS til a few pages into this thread so went and educated myself, now I've learnt that compression arthralgia kicks in at depths I've already done and that rushing to shorten bottom time makes it worse...

Thankfully I have never perceived any compression pains, and make pretty rapid descents on Scuba and surface supplied. My perception has been, perhaps incorrectly, that compression arthralgia isn't much of a problem until around 400-450'. Anybody here experienced it? Come to think of it, I don't recall freedivers reporting compressions pains, but they are pretty narc'd and deep in their "Zen" mode really deep.

 

[KathyV]

I came across this post about the recovery of Guy Garman's body. I do not mean to be ghoulish, I just hope that that his sad passing will provide useful information that will help others stay safe in the future.

Dr. Guy Garman

Re: Dr. Guy Garman
SunnyCaribe
August 19, 2015 07:24PM

The "authorities" hired a contractor to recover the body. I haven't spoken with him yet but heard he said it was a rough day. It was by no means his first such recovery. It was accomplished fairly quickly so I assume Garman was still on the descent line. I assume they used lift bags in stages, but they could have used a winch. The descent line was installed earlier this year with what was said to be a 250# anchor in 1300' of water.

 

[Akimbo]

I came across this post about the recovery of Guy Garman's body. I do not mean to be ghoulish, I hope that that his death will provide useful information that will help others stay safe in the future...

I would be very surprised if a coroner could tell anything definitive beyond horrific tissue damage due to explosive decompression of a corpse that has been submerged for days.

 

[Divetech99]

Akimbo or others, how did Ahmed Gabr deal with HPNS , Joint Compression and other risk factors when he did his bounce dive to 1,000 FSW a few months back? Isn't that what DrDeep was trying to replicate? From reports back then, Gabr's accomplishment was herald by Guinness and training agencies. Just trying to understand how did Gabr succeed from a technical standpoint. Thanks.

 

[The Chairman]

Sheer dumb luck. I bet you won't see him trying to replicate his success either.

 

[Akimbo]

Akimbo or others, how did Ahmed Gabr deal with HPNS , Joint Compression and other risk factors when he did his bounce dive to 1,000 FSW a few months back? Isn't that what DrDeep was trying to replicate? From reports back then, Gabr's accomplishment was herald by Guinness and training agencies. Just trying to understand how did Gabr succeed from a technical standpoint. Thanks.

IMHO, he was lucky to survive another pointless dive. Being heralded by Guinness??? They have about as much credibility as Paris Hilton on this subject. Gabr was also 200' shallower, thus reducing his gas management problem. Did anyone learn anything useful on that dive? Not that I can see.

 

[JohnnyC]

I would be very surprised if a coroner could tell anything definitive beyond horrific tissue damage due to explosive decompression of a corpse that has been submerged for days.

Wouldn't this depend on how long he was alive into the dive? Since he's not breathing, he's not exchanging gas, so that goes both ways. If he died quickly, before he on-gassed a significant amount, how much difference would it make re:tissue damage?

 

[Akimbo]

Wouldn't this depend on how long he was alive into the dive?...

Just ask yourself how much his decompression obligation was at the depth he expired. The technical answer is "a hell of a lot", wherever that was. That's a good indication that there was a considerable amount of dissolved gas in his tissues that gets pretty ugly when it comes out more or less all at once.