do your own visual

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The answer is never, followed by almost never during hydro test. The incidence of scuba tanks blowing up and killing people while being filled with air (or nitrox) is so rare as to be in the category of being struck by lightning the day after winning the lottery.

And what is a 'reputable' shop? I know of one very popular shop that simply looks in the tank, sees that there's no corrosion, slaps a sticker on, and rings it up on the register. I appreciate your sentiment that you would extend professional courtesy to another dive shop, but to be perfectly frank there's no real 'standard' or certification here. Any shop employee can simply put on the shop's sticker. Is it safe? Yes, but not because the tank is being 'professionally' inspected. It's safe because time has shown with millions of fills that filling scuba tanks to their rated fill pressure that are current in hydro test is a very safe operation.

So the fact that it's inherently very very very low risk to fill a tank allows the scuba industry to 'take credit' for this safety through the annual visual inspection practice. But outside of the U.S. this practice doesn't exist, and you don't see tanks blowing up all over the world.

I don't think it's a bad idea to annually look in a scuba tank; for example one wet fill can really cause some damage in steel tanks. I also don't fault anyone with a compressor who insists on doing whatever they feel necessary to ensure their own safety. But the current VIS program is little more than a fill tax IMO.

I agree with you, but I have failed a few too many tanks during visual to simple call it a fill tax. Does this mean they would have blown up? No not by a long shot but safety standards are good and we are all here because of them. Basically I think we can all agree that no one wants to be unsafe and it comes down to if you LDS will fill after you vis or not. GL
 
You are right that it is not rocket science when inspecting a tank. I have a PSI cert my self. I would say that you have been lucky to have your home made stickers accepted. Many have done what you are doing, and enough people are doing it that it is not unusual to see shops refusing to accept stickers that are not considered, produced from credible sources, or recognized agencies. My tanks are steel so i dont have to use the eddie current/ crack detector. But if you are inspecting al tanks you need to have the equipment to do it properly. From your post, you like me, are inspecting your own tanks because as you stated it is cheaper than sending them out. SAurely you can clearly see that your 35 tanks is an anual cost of what 350 fir vis's a year. Spend that 350 on a legit inspection course. I can tell you it takes perhaps 1/2 hour to inspect a steel tank properly. Once again there is no eddie current test to do. With your inspection ticket you can buy the legit stickers. I wont go down the road to say that you will kill someone with your current methodology. I will tell you that If i had a shop and a home grown sticker came in, I would at minimum, question it. Most of the folks that I talk to dont make thier own stickers, they steel one and go to kinkos and have them make bumper stickers as a means to reproduce them. There is a lot involved with inspecting for tank neck cracks, the techniques are not just picked up from reading. I had the oportunity on my last recert for PSI to see a tank that was found when filling to have a slight leak to it. The filler always used water to spray on the necks to look for leaks in the valve and filling hoses. this one tank bubbled about 1/4 inch from the tank valve seat. Tht tank res removed and inspected and a pin hole ws found. You know it hasd to be small cause folks were diving the tank. With out the water spray it would not have been seen. the eddie test caught it also. The tan now has a hole in it also. In regards to your comment that the vip is not a legal requirement. Let me add this. a Hydro is not a legal requiremet either so long as it remans outside of the transportation or commercial envoronments. There is absolutely nothing that prevents an uninspected tank from being filled by you at home for your own use. Given that, I dont have to have hydro's so long as i have a compressor and fill the tank for my self. An effective loophole to avoid inspectons yes. A prudent practice, NO. Spend the money, take a course, and put universally recognized stickers on your tanks.

I inspect my own tanks. I make my own stickers. I have done this off and on for some time now. Never had a problem. My stickers did not even look very good, never even been questioned on them. The VIP is not a legal requirement, it is an inner industry standard. I can look in a tank as good as anyone and I do not charge myself for doing so. I have over twenty tanks so it can be expensive as it is with the hydro tests every five.

N


---------- Post added December 18th, 2012 at 04:48 PM ----------

As a plug for PSI. You also have by tanking the class met the requirements for the hazzardous material handling. The Law requires it is done every 3 years. Hense the 3 year renewal of the PSI cert. I venture to say that if you checked with the shop, none have any documented hazzard material training for compressed cylendars. They probably are not even aware of the requirement.As stickers go, You can buy them after providing the suplplier with proof of your inspector cert.I am PSI so i just buy mine from PSI.
 
There's no free lunch, just face it.

There is a cost associated with getting certified (Time and cash) and in some cases with maintaining certification.

Some level of equipment is needed, at least a light and stickers. The day you see a questionable pit you need to be thinking about inspection picks etc. The day you find rust of concern you're buying a whip or building a tumbler and so it goes.

Not all shops will honor a DIY VIP regardless of your training. They either want to protect the revenue stream and /or know there is business liability insurance backing the sticker just in case. If you are not so hassled good for you. Anyone considering this endeavor needs to know this. I have witnessed it on multiple occasions it's a fact so don't try to prove a negative that is already a positive.

Nobody cares how meticulous you are or that the shop has clueless DM trainee peeking in your tank slapping on a fresh sticker. Were back to the revenue stream and insurance.

Given the costs associated there is a break even point. If all the rest works you have either extended your hobby and / or saved a few bucks.

If you are filling your own cylinders and don't need to count on out of town fills you have hope.

If you have the right personal situation and enough cylinders or just want to extend your hobby the DIY VIP can be a good pastime.

Pete
 
I have Level II NDT certification. I know what I am doing and for the rest, people can believe what they believe, we have been down this road before and each camp only proves themselves more certain to themselves. N
 
I am not sure what you are saying, but i assume that you re commenting on the use of homebrew stickers. I will say that i have broused the net for dive shops in potential locatoins and some say" Air fills for those tanks that have recognized vis stickers only.

I have Level II NDT certification. I know what I am doing and for the rest, people can believe what they believe, we have been down this road before and each camp only proves themselves more certain to themselves. N
 
Acceptance of stickers is a dive industry self enforced/regulated requirement. Therefor, there are inconsistencies within the industry itself from shop to shop.

Some shops are clueless and fill any cylinder that is brought through the door, others are more restrictive on what they will accept. The competency of the visual inspection at the dive shops also varies greatly as everyone knows and I have personally witnessed.

I don't agree that every shop that rejects questionable stickers or wants a PSI/PCI inspector number is simply trying to generate revenue. Most with specific requirements like that are protecting themselves, their employees and customers. Most failures are during the filling process. I had a class with employees of a large hydro facility in N Florida and they have condemned thousands of cylinders, hundreds each year. So don't judge based on your little neck of the woods.

The idea is to set minimum standards that are primarily based on specifications from the manufacturers (max pitting depths, scratch size, dents, bowing, corrosion, etc.) to ensure increased safety and minimized risks. The risk will always be there and obviously is. There are plenty of deceased and/or maimed people to prove it.

This is one area that I wish had stronger regulation to ensure more consistency and competency within the dive shops themselves.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
So don't judge based on your little neck of the woods.

You don't cite what or who you are speaking to so I will infer that it includes my comments.

The only thing I said that could be considered judgemental is that the defacto statements made by others to do their own VIP inspections do not constitue sound advice for the OP or any random reader browsing this thread.

There absolutlely, positively are scenarios where a DIY VIP will not get you a fill, that is a fact. Anyone considering doing their own inspections just needs to realize that, evaluate their local situation and go forward based on facts.

To simply say "do it" is setting some percentage up for failure.

Pete
 
I would probablly take the PSI course. In addition to my other dive businesses I have a small Hydro/VIP Business and I have very few tanks fail hydro, most fail the VIP. If you do decide to DIY then just ensure you have all the appropriate tools required. Pay close attention to the threads and make sure you can accurately measure pits.

Cheers,
Roger
 
Couldnt say it better. May I add that First impressions carry the most weight. A Home made sticker to save a few cents speaks volumns about what other corners may have been cut inthe inspection process.

I would probablly take the PSI course. In addition to my other dive businesses I have a small Hydro/VIP Business and I have very few tanks fail hydro, most fail the VIP. If you do decide to DIY then just ensure you have all the appropriate tools required. Pay close attention to the threads and make sure you can accurately measure pits.

Cheers,
Roger
 

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