Do you think this is a qualified CESA？

[boulderjohn]

but the training institution asked us to perform CESA in full accordance with the standard, (the standard is: length 9 meters, time not less than 30 seconds, suspension, forward horizontal swimming can not touch the bottom or Out of the water, the mouth makes a sound and keeps spitting out bubbles)

Standard instruction from PADI and other agencies includes what used to be called a fin pivot, an exercise that teaches students that when they exhale they lose buoyancy and sink, and when they inhale they gain buoyancy and rise. The primary purpose of this exercise seems to be to prove that this notion is wrong, that exhaling won't make you sink.

Putting it another way, when you look at the standards as a whole, it is a bizarre buoyancy exercise that has almost nothing to do with a CESA.

It's so hard
When I chatted with the video sender, the other party thought it was easy and sent me the video, so this topic came up

As many pothers have pointed out, the diver did not exhale, so he did not do the exercise according to those bizarre standards.

My advice would be to get as far away from this unnamed organization as you can.

 

[boulderjohn]

I wanted to make this point separately.

I referenced an exercise that used to be called the fin pivot, and I believe there is something to be learned from the reason that PADI discontinued this exercise. I believe the same thing that ruined the fin pivot as an instructional tool happened in this exercise.

The fin pivot was created to teach one and only one concept--the effect of breathing on buoyancy. That's it. What happened after that is that somehow the fin pivot became a skill unto itself, and instructors began to obsess on the form of the fin pivot and forgot its one and only purpose. They began to demand perfect form, with straight legs and only the fin tips touch the floor. They failed students if they touched the floor on descent or if their fin tips left the floor on ascent. I saw this with my own eyes. I was trained to require those things. The fin pivot, which began its life as a quick demonstration of the effect of breathing on buoyancy, morphed into a monster of a skill, the hardest part of the OW class.

I think the same metamorphosis happened here. CESA had to be taught horizontally in the pool because pools are not deep enough to do it vertically. Eventually requirements were added to the skill that had nothing to do with the purpose of the exercise because people forgot the purpose of the exercise. It thus changed from an emergency ascent exercise to a buoyancy control exercise.

 

[LEO1982]

So, if he is not a student, what's the purpose of this video?
It comes back to the original post: what are you really asking for?
The video shows an improperly done exercise. There is no excuse for kicking that way, it is just horrible and inefficient. It is no matter of speed, it is matter of saving energy while not breathing.
There is no reason for removing the reg from the mouth: if the excercise starts with full lungs and the diver expires continuously, how can he inhale?
There is no reason for detaching the LP hose from the power inflator: if the exercise begins being neutrally buoyant, both injecting air or expelling air causes the loss of neutrality.

thank you for your reply
Maybe you didn't pay attention to the message I gave to others
The reason for this is because I said that it is very difficult to do CESA in a swimming pool with a depth of 1.5 according to the standard (the standard is: length 9 meters, time not less than 30 seconds, suspension, forward horizontal swimming can not touch the bottom or exit the water , the mouth makes a sound, and keeps spitting bubbles) If it is difficult to do it in a pool with a depth of 1.5 meters, the lower half will sink. Kicking the fins can offset the negative buoyancy, but it may make you unable to control the speed. The video sender thinks it's easy, he can do it, so we bet,
In order to prevent the other party from cheating, we ask the other party to remove the REG second stage head in his mouth (to avoid stealing suction on the way), and unplug the BCD LP hose (to avoid stealing charging on the way)

he posted this video
I said "it's not CESA, you didn't exhale continuously the whole time",
He said "I'm done, it's CESA" so I want to see what everyone thinks

1 The purpose is for everyone to comment, but when commenting, don’t worry that he doesn’t have The second stages and BCD is not connected to LP hose, and don’t say that he’s doing something wrong because of this problem (normally we don’t do this, you can imagine He is carrying The second stages, and the LP hose is also connected normally, so don't get entangled in these two issues), try to talk about other issues to see what the problem is.
2. I have already explained why the second stages are removed, and during the exam, you can only exhale, not inhale.
3Imagine that you are swimming forward at a water depth of 1.5 meters (note that there is a difference between horizontal swimming and ascending, the depth of horizontal swimming will not change, and the buoyancy will not change), spit out bubbles, About halfway through the distance you become negatively buoyant,It can be adjusted to neutral buoyancy by secretly inflating, then this action is not difficult to complete, it is difficult to judge whether he has inflated the BCD just by relying on the video

Please forgive me English is not my mother tongue, I translated it through GOOGle

 

[LEO1982]

I wanted to make this point separately.

I referenced an exercise that used to be called the fin pivot, and I believe there is something to be learned from the reason that PADI discontinued this exercise. I believe the same thing that ruined the fin pivot as an instructional tool happened in this exercise.

The fin pivot was created to teach one and only one concept--the effect of breathing on buoyancy. That's it. What happened after that is that somehow the fin pivot became a skill unto itself, and instructors began to obsess on the form of the fin pivot and forgot its one and only purpose. They began to demand perfect form, with straight legs and only the fin tips touch the floor. They failed students if they touched the floor on descent or if their fin tips left the floor on ascent. I saw this with my own eyes. I was trained to require those things. The fin pivot, which began its life as a quick demonstration of the effect of breathing on buoyancy, morphed into a monster of a skill, the hardest part of the OW class.

I think the same metamorphosis happened here. CESA had to be taught horizontally in the pool because pools are not deep enough to do it vertically. Eventually requirements were added to the skill that had nothing to do with the purpose of the exercise because people forgot the purpose of the exercise. It thus changed from an emergency ascent exercise to a buoyancy control exercise.

This is a reply that really touches the soul

 

[LEO1982]

Standard instruction from PADI and other agencies includes what used to be called a fin pivot, an exercise that teaches students that when they exhale they lose buoyancy and sink, and when they inhale they gain buoyancy and rise. The primary purpose of this exercise seems to be to prove that this notion is wrong, that exhaling won't make you sink.

Putting it another way, when you look at the standards as a whole, it is a bizarre buoyancy exercise that has almost nothing to do with a CESA.

As many pothers have pointed out, the diver did not exhale, so he did not do the exercise according to those bizarre standards.

My advice would be to get as far away from this unnamed organization as you can.

Sometimes it's not the organization's reason, but the human problem. Some coaches don't really understand why this action is done, they just repeat it mechanically and follow the script.

 

[LEO1982]

i would say no.. diver is holding breath the whole time.

(CESA) is an emergency swimming ascent which remains under control and which is performed at a safe ascent rate, with continuous exhalation at a rate unlikely to cause injury to the diver by lung overexpansion.

Yes, as long as you keep exhaling and maintaining your ascent rate, it is unlikely to cause lung damage to a diver.

 

[LEO1982]

No need to remove reg. As along ad you can see exhalation bubbles the whole way you'll know there aren't any breaths being taken.

I'd say this is not only a fail, but downright dangerous for this diver to repeat at depth.

Yes, if it is easy to judge in the field, considering that it can only be judged from the video, I gave up the idea

 

[LEO1982]

No, and the instructor who did not stop the exercise in the first 10 seconds and correct the student should be made to carry bricks uphill for a day or two.
I know that horizontal CESA is done in order to prevent the student doing exactly what this one is doing in a more dangerous environment but there is 0 point or real world applications to doing it this way.

I agree with you, but sorry it's not a teaching or an exam, he's not a student

 

[Angelo Farina]

thank you for your reply
Maybe you didn't pay attention to the message I gave to others
The reason for this is because I said that it is very difficult to do CESA in a swimming pool with a depth of 1.5 according to the standard (the standard is: length 9 meters, time not less than 30 seconds, suspension, forward horizontal swimming can not touch the bottom or exit the water , the mouth makes a sound, and keeps spitting bubbles) If it is difficult to do it in a pool with a depth of 1.5 meters, the lower half will sink. Kicking the fins can offset the negative buoyancy, but it may make you unable to control the speed. The video sender thinks it's easy, he can do it, so we bet,
In order to prevent the other party from cheating, we ask the other party to remove the REG second stage head in his mouth (to avoid stealing suction on the way), and unplug the BCD LP hose (to avoid stealing charging on the way)

he posted this video
I said "it's not CESA, you didn't exhale continuously the whole time",
He said "I'm done, it's CESA" so I want to see what everyone thinks

1 The purpose is for everyone to comment, but when commenting, don’t worry that he doesn’t have The second stages and BCD is not connected to LP hose, and don’t say that he’s doing something wrong because of this problem (normally we don’t do this, you can imagine He is carrying The second stages, and the LP hose is also connected normally, so don't get entangled in these two issues), try to talk about other issues to see what the problem is.
2. I have already explained why the second stages are removed, and during the exam, you can only exhale, not inhale.
3Imagine that you are swimming forward at a water depth of 1.5 meters (note that there is a difference between horizontal swimming and ascending, the depth of horizontal swimming will not change, and the buoyancy will not change), spit out bubbles, About halfway through the distance you become negatively buoyant,It can be adjusted to neutral buoyancy by secretly inflating, then this action is not difficult to complete, it is difficult to judge whether he has inflated the BCD just by relying on the video

Please forgive me English is not my mother tongue, I translated it through GOOGle

Okay, now finally everything is clear. Sorry for misunderstanding your question and the source of the video.
I confirm my opinion on the kicking style: when someone has no control of his fins, as the diver in the video, for me he is totally disqualified to provide any useful information or teaching.
Regarding the simulated CESA, my understabding is thst the pool should have a minimum depth of 3 meters.
With my long Cressi Rondine Gara fins and ny ample, slow and efficient flutter kick, it would be impossible to swim horizontally in just 1.5m of water, the extremities of the fins will certainly touch the floor and/or the surface.
So again I point on the kicking style...
Regarding instead the loss of buoyancy due to exhaling, in 30s one should exhale just half of his lung capacity.
My lung capacity is 5 liters, so I will loose a buoyancy of just 2.5 kg.
Something which can be easily compensated with ample, slow and efficient kicking.
But in just 1.5m depth you cannot perform such good kicking.
That's the problem of attempting this exercise in a shallow pool.
Regarding the guy in the video, he cheated twice:
1) not exhaling as required
2) not kicking properly, as it is also required.
So I would never consider the exercise as passed, if I was the instructor and he was the student.
And if he was the instructor, instead, that is certainy not the proper way of showing a perfectly executed exercise.
Conclusion: proper pool training requires a pool which is almost 3m depth. As per Cmas requirements!
But in Cmas we do not teach Cesa anymore...

 

[LEO1982]

Okay, now finally everything is clear. Sorry for misunderstanding your question and the source of the video.
I confirm my opinion on the kicking style: when someone has no control of his fins, as the diver in the video, for me he is totally disqualified to provide any useful information or teaching.
Regarding the simulated CESA, my understabding is thst the pool should have a minimum depth of 3 meters.
With my long Cressi Rondine Gara fins and ny ample, slow and efficient flutter kick, it would be impossible to swim horizontally in just 1.5m of water, the extremities of the fins will certainly touch the floor and/or the surface.
So again I point on the kicking style...
Regarding instead the loss of buoyancy due to exhaling, in 30s one should exhale just half of his lung capacity.
My lung capacity is 5 liters, so I will loose a buoyancy of just 2.5 kg.
Something which can be easily compensated with ample, slow and efficient kicking.
But in just 1.5m depth you cannot perform such good kicking.
That's the problem of attempting this exercise in a shallow pool.
Regarding the guy in the video, he cheated twice:
1) not exhaling as required
2) not kicking properly, as it is also required.
So I would never consider the exercise as passed, if I was the instructor and he was the student.
And if he was the instructor, instead, that is certainy not the proper way of showing a perfectly executed exercise.
Conclusion: proper pool training requires a pool which is almost 3m depth. As per Cmas requirements!
But in Cmas we do not teach Cesa anymore...

thank you for your reply

Yes, at a water depth of 1.5 meters, use negative buoyancy to maintain suspension (no leaking above the water surface and not touching the bottom) while swimming horizontally, and control 9 meters for no less than 30 seconds. This is simply too difficult and unrealistic