Do you think this is a qualified CESA？

[LEO1982]

What is a "network confirmation video"? What is its purpose?

This is against PADI standards. Was this PADI?

Why do you send a video and then say to ignore it?

NO. As soon as the reg was spit out, it failed. All the rest is irrelevant.

Thank you for your reply
No, this is not PADI or SSI
This is not an exam or teaching. The reason for this is that I said that it is very difficult to do CESA in a 1.5-deep swimming pool according to the standard (the standard is: length 9 meters, time not less than 30 seconds, suspension, forward horizontal swimming can not touch the bottom or Out of the water, the mouth makes a sound and keeps spitting out bubbles) If it is difficult to do it in a pool with a depth of 1.5 meters, it will sink in the second half, and kicking the fins may speed up. The video sender thinks it is easy and he can do it, so we call made a bet,
In order to prevent the other party from cheating, we asked the other party to remove the REG second stages in the mouth (to avoid secretly inhaling on the way) and unplug the BCD LP hose (to avoid secretly inflating on the way)

he sent this video
I said "this is not CESA, you didn't exhale continuously during the whole process",
He said "I'm done, this is CESA" so I want to see what everyone thinks

And please forgive me that English is not my mother tongue, I translated it through GOOGle

 

[LEO1982]

Air gas embolism can happen in a pool, even in the shallow end of a pool.

Yes, so I feel like the whole thing needs to be at least half of the lungs exhaled, otherwise there is a risk of lung laceration

 

[LEO1982]

So would you have passed this student? Does it really matter if he did some things right, if he did some dangerous things wrong?

Just to clarify, this is not my student and I am not teaching him, the people in the video are certified divers or instructors

 

[LEO1982]

so first of all i congratulate anyone who even understood the original post.

second, our shop starting doing horizontal cesa a long time ago so i have no issue with that.

what i would have an issue with is the fact that the diver was not exhaling. not at all.

i also do not support the idea of removing the reg from the mouth. i taught my students to NEVER take their reg out unless they have a working one to replace it.

and last, i personally would not encourage the idea of disconnecting the bc inflate hose. i understand you are trying to make sure they do not cheat but any instructor should be able to easily tell if they hit the inflate button.

i cannot recall if the diver had their right hand on a weight pocket. we teach one hand on hose, one on a pocket.

on the plus side it looked like they were neutral, they did have the hose in hand ready to dump as required to control ascent, they were looking where they were going, and they were moving at a nice easy pace. they also looked to be manually inflating at the surface.

thank you for your reply
Just to clarify, the sender of the video is not my student, but a certified diver or instructor

When I teach my students, I don't make my students do that

 

[LEO1982]

Thank you all for your kind replies

 

[boulderjohn]

(the standard is: length 9 meters, time not less than 30 seconds, suspension, forward horizontal swimming can not touch the bottom or Out of the water, the mouth makes a sound and keeps spitting out bubbles)

Which agency has these standards? I know PADI does not.

• As was emphasized to me in my PADI instructor training, there is no time mentioned in the standard, and it should be expected that the diver will do it in less than 30 seconds.
• The rule against touching the bottom makes no sense . In a real CESA the diver is ascending vertically, so touching the bottom has no relation to learning the real skill. More importantly, if the diver exhales the entire distance, the diver will lose buoyancy and likely touch the bottom.
• The sound is not important--it is there to help the instructor know the student is exhaling. THere are other ways to know.
• When doing this exercise, I was always aware that the student was breathing because I was right alongside, with my hand actually lightly touching that regulator to make sure it was not spit out and to make sure the student was exhaling. How on earth can you have students do skills that potentially kill them if you are not there supervising?

 

[LEO1982]

Which agency has these standards? I know PADI does not.

• As was emphasized to me in my PADI instructor training, there is no time mentioned in the standard, and it should be expected that the diver will do it in less than 30 seconds.
• The rule against touching the bottom makes no sense . In a real CESA the diver is ascending vertically, so touching the bottom has no relation to learning the real skill. More importantly, if the diver exhales the entire distance, the diver will lose buoyancy and likely touch the bottom.
• The sound is not important--it is there to help the instructor know the student is exhaling. THere are other ways to know.
• When doing this exercise, I was always aware that the student was breathing because I was right alongside, with my hand actually lightly touching that regulator to make sure it was not spit out and to make sure the student was exhaling. How on earth can you have students do skills that potentially kill them if you are not there supervising?

The whole thing started like this, there is an institution in my country that you don't know (forgive me for not wanting to mention its name) and I attended training at this institution
The on-site swimming pool was only 1.5 meters deep during training, but the training institution asked us to perform CESA in full accordance with the standard, (the standard is: length 9 meters, time not less than 30 seconds, suspension, forward horizontal swimming can not touch the bottom or Out of the water, the mouth makes a sound and keeps spitting out bubbles) It's so hard
When I chatted with the video sender, the other party thought it was easy and sent me the video, so this topic came up

1 Please don't get entangled in PADI standards, the whole thing has nothing to do with PADI or SSI, there is no time mentioned in the standard, but the ascent speed is no more than 18 meters per minute, so 9 meters can not be less than 30 seconds
2 I agree with you, The rule against touching the bottom makes no sense, but I did not propose the rule, I just relayed this rule, and let people who feel easy to test whether it is really easy as he said
3 I agree that the sound is not important, but it is clearly written in my teaching guide to open your mouth and make a sound, so this is also one of the rules, you have to open your mouth and make a sound, of course the purpose of making a sound is to spit out bubbles .
4 Other methods are not easy to judge only by the video, so I explicitly asked the other party to make a sound and spit out bubbles, but from the current video, he did not do it


Just to clarify, the sender of the video is not my student, but a certified diver or instructor
When I teach my students, I don't make my students do that
We only have on-site teaching, not through video teaching (of course, theory courses can be taught online)
In fact, I don't think CESA is difficult, but the condition is a swimming pool with a depth of 1.5 meters plus a length of 9 meters, time not less than 30 seconds, suspension, forward horizontal swimming can not touch the bottom or Out of the water, the mouth makes a sound and keeps spitting out bubbles, the combination of these will make this movement very difficult, I even think that 90% of people can't do it under this condition

Sorry, I don't know why this message wasn't in English when I sent it, I edited my reply into English, hope you can understand

Finally let's go back to the original question, does the CESA in the video qualify

 

[LEO1982]

I notice a number of things done wrongly:.
1) kicking style really horrible and inefficient. The student should learn to swim with fins before taking a diving course...
2) reg in mouth. There is no reason for removing it. It is just dangerous.
3) he is not exhaling continuously. Also this is very dangerous, even in a pool.
4) I do not understand what he is doing with the power inflator. During a real vertical CESA he should dump some air...

1 If you want to swim at a depth of 1.5 meters and maintain 9 meters for no less than 30 seconds, the kicking range of the flippers should not be too large, otherwise it will exceed the ascent speed of 18 meters per minute
2 Please ignore The second stages in the mouth are not in the mouth, because this is not teaching, and he is not a student, this is just for the convenience of me to confirm that he did not inhale during the whole process, we will not be teaching let students do this
3 I agree with you, and I think at least 1/2 of the air in the lungs should be exhaled in practical situations
4. The ascent should be the discharge of air, because it is a parallel swimming in the pool to simulate CESA, so you will become negative buoyancy in the second half of the journey, secretly inflating a little air can help maintain the suspension state, the LP hose is not connected to the BCD,so he can't use the inflation to cheat

 

[Angelo Farina]

1 If you want to swim at a depth of 1.5 meters and maintain 9 meters for no less than 30 seconds, the kicking range of the flippers should not be too large, otherwise it will exceed the ascent speed of 18 meters per minute
2 Please ignore The second stages in the mouth are not in the mouth, because this is not teaching, and he is not a student, this is just for the convenience of me to confirm that he did not inhale during the whole process, we will not be teaching let students do this
3 I agree with you, and I think at least 1/2 of the air in the lungs should be exhaled in practical situations
4. The ascent should be the discharge of air, because it is a parallel swimming in the pool to simulate CESA, so you will become negative buoyancy in the second half of the journey, secretly inflating a little air can help maintain the suspension state, the LP hose is not connected to the BCD,so he can't use the inflation to cheat

So, if he is not a student, what's the purpose of this video?
It comes back to the original post: what are you really asking for?
The video shows an improperly done exercise. There is no excuse for kicking that way, it is just horrible and inefficient. It is no matter of speed, it is matter of saving energy while not breathing.
There is no reason for removing the reg from the mouth: if the excercise starts with full lungs and the diver expires continuously, how can he inhale?
There is no reason for detaching the LP hose from the power inflator: if the exercise begins being neutrally buoyant, both injecting air or expelling air causes the loss of neutrality.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Just to clarify, this is not my student and I am not teaching him, the people in the video are certified divers or instructors

An instructor kicking so badly should have his certification withdrawn.
During my instructor exam I had to free dive swimming with mask and fins horizontally for 50 meters and without mask and fins for 33 meters...