• Welcome to ScubaBoard


  1. Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

    Benefits of registering include

    • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
    • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
    • You can make this box go away

    Joining is quick and easy. Login or Register now by clicking on the button

Do you think computers encourage risky diving in new/ young divers?

Discussion in 'Advanced Scuba Discussions' started by formernuke, May 16, 2020.

  1. TMHeimer

    TMHeimer Divemaster

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Dartmouth,NS,Canada(Eastern Passage-Atlantic)
    13,271
    3,210
    113
    I guess I'm avoiding saying yes or no.
    You have new divers and "young" divers in the OP.
    New divers may just as easily screw up using tables.
    With "young" you must give an age. Many say young males are more prone to taking stupid chances than females. Then what age? Recently 14-24 was suggested. Of course, this is a generalization as there are many who don't fit this parameter.

    Sort of an analogy may be when stick shift cars gradually gave way to automatics being more the norm. Some said this makes it too easy-- less to think about-- so accidents will happen by confusing gas with brake (no clutch). I guess this didn't affect accident rates (don't really know). Then again, it seems to me there are more idiots on the road today than ever.

    One of my favourite pet peeves is that it is rarely explained that you don't have the conservatism with DCs that you do with tables--your bottom time is (theoretically) exactly what it is. So someone may think "I have 1 minute bottom time remaining, so I'm safe".
     
    Boston Breakwater likes this.
  2. tursiops

    tursiops Marine Scientist and Master Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: U.S. East Coast
    9,781
    7,427
    113
    Are you also a solo diver, the way your profile says? Do you have that training?
     
  3. johndiver999

    johndiver999 Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Gainesville FL
    1,131
    1,076
    113
    That type of diving is probably not that unusual for young and aggressive divers. Venturing over the magic "deco" line with your pinky toe is not such a huge issue in my mind and if you always end up with 1000 psi to hang, chances are all will go well.

    The risk is not so much going over the line, but possibly not being prepared for contingencies. What if a buddy runs out of air or has a failure? Have you figured that into the logistics?

    What if you blow a LP hose, or a BC fails and you have to kick yourself to the the surface? Do you have the tools of redundancy to get yourself out of trouble when one of the more easily envisioned problems arise? What you are doing is simple and easy, if all goes as planned.

    These same issues will arise if you push the limits and begin your ascent with 1 minute of no deco time left. One or two minutes over, or one or two minutes under, the theoretical DECO line probably makes little difference, because one day you will be sick or cold or tired or whatever and your body won't be working at its best.

    In my opinion, once you start routinely approaching the theoretical limits, a diver would be prudent to start working in some redundancies and a plan B and maybe even C.

    To boil it down to the simplest, sure 1000 psi on the short deco/safety is adequate, but what actions have you taken to ensure that you actually will have that amount of gas when you reach 10 feet?
     
    EFX likes this.
  4. Joneill

    Joneill ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: New Jersey, USA
    1,712
    1,547
    113
    No - a diver should not be doing decompression diving unless trained - the computer has nothing to do with it, in my opinion.
     
  5. TMHeimer

    TMHeimer Divemaster

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Dartmouth,NS,Canada(Eastern Passage-Atlantic)
    13,271
    3,210
    113
    Agree. I mean, why go so close to limits that you MAY go into deco? Isn't it easier to plan to ascend within say, a minimum of 5 minutes of the NDL? I guess if you're diving a square profile on tables that 5 minutes may even be 6 or 7 unless you dive with your mask in the sand the whole time. On an 80' or 100' dive on Air I'll start up with 5 minutes left (bottom time is short anyway). On a 60' dive (NDL 55 mins.) I'll probably ascend at 45 minutes.
     
    AfterDark and BlueTrin like this.
  6. Scraps

    Scraps ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Florida
    299
    532
    93
    Answer to the OP: No.

    I regularly lead inexperienced divers on local dives after they get their open water certifications, so I see a good sampling of the species.

    New divers are so focused on the basics of seeing, breathing, getting neutral and getting horizontal under water that they are unaware of the information available on their computers or what it means. Most will not check their depth or pressure without prompting.

    Today was a typical example. Young couple around 30 years old. They've been certified two years and they already have eight dives (now ten), including the four in their OW course. They looked at their consoles only when asked to do so. I don't believe either of them processed any information other than tank pressure during the length of our two dives. I guarantee they weren't thinking of ways to game the computer.

    Overall, this couple was very normal for new divers. We talked about their responsibilities to themselves and each other, but from the moment their brains came in contact with the salt water, they stopped giving evidence that they were doing any planning or thinking. They were counting on me to keep them safe and in contact with each other in our 15-ft visibility. I did. They tipped well, and they want to go out with me again, at which time, I'll try to get them to broaden their perspective from the diameter of a drinking straw to that of the core of a toilet paper roll.

    It takes time to develop situational awareness of the variables that affect your dive.

    A new or young diver who tried to use a computer to maximize deep bottom time and ride the NDL up as described in the OP would be unusually precocious.
     
    hammet, AfterDark, Esprise Me and 2 others like this.
  7. EFX

    EFX ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: North Central Florida
    874
    466
    63
    And what species is that -- Oh-No! Sap-ians?
     
    Scraps and Brett Hatch like this.
  8. EFX

    EFX ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: North Central Florida
    874
    466
    63
    Unfortunately, this is the mentality of many casual vacation divers who don't dive because it's a hobby but as one of many pastimes. They could just as easily go see a movie than go diving. I have friends, a couple, when I asked them after a days worth of diving why they stuck so close to the DM and in doing so, more or less ignored me. Their response was "We paid the DM to guide us and protect us". So, that just about sums it up. These divers will never see how irresponsible they are to their buddies and to other divers.
     
  9. Marie13

    Marie13 Great Lakes Mermaid ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Great Lakes
    7,116
    5,708
    113
    You should have written they ONLY have eight dives. Good Lord, 10 dives in two years? If they’re going that much time in between dives, I don’t expect the situation to improve much. Do you remember the last time they dove?
     
  10. Scraps

    Scraps ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Florida
    299
    532
    93
    Marie,
    The “already” was tongue in cheek . They said they dove last fall.
     

Share This Page