Do you run a primary at sites like the Eye at Ginnie?

[tomfcrist]

Been seeing a few folks not running a line down to the goldline in the eye.

I know the goldline was extended to where it now is to keep multiple teams from running primaries down the chute, however it is still at the back of the cavern.

I can see how someone could talk themselves into not needing a primary here for multiple reasons. I am interested in everyone else’s take.

 

[Manatee Diver]

I do it time to time for practice, but no.

Per my early cave instructors Harry and Reggie. The change was made at both P1 and the Eye purposely so most people wouldn't need to run a reels. At the Eye it was due to traffic levels, as it becomes unworkable even with the current position for more than 3-4 teams each at the Eye and the Ear. At P1 it was due to conservation reasons at the request of the Park Ranger at the time, and that there was even a dude who would come and run a gold line from the ladder to the current mainline when the vis in the basin was marginal.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Yes, always, from open water, even in the Eye. As a new-ish cave diver, no one will give me the stinkeye for sticking to the "rules."

 

[DogDiver]

In high flow systems where the gold line is in the cavern zone…never. Now at Little River, with flood conditions I’ve often tied off to the stairs so finding them is easier.

 

[rjack321]

Been seeing a few folks not running a line down to the goldline in the eye.

I know the goldline was extended to where it now is to keep multiple teams from running primaries down the chute, however it is still at the back of the cavern.

I can see how someone could talk themselves into not needing a primary here for multiple reasons. I am interested in everyone else’s take.

I've gone in at the ear on a sooter, dropped deco bottles at the end of the gold line, and decoed out the eye 2+ hours later. At the time there was an unverified (to me) permanent reel in the eye. So I didn't have a personal reel of mine out the ear and hadn't verified the micro circuit out the eye.

Was it "risky" yes, in the grand scheme of risks, not really.

I just realized this is the opposite of your question

 

[tbone1004]

In high flow systems where the gold line is in the cavern zone…never. Now at Little River, with flood conditions I’ve often tied off to the stairs so finding them is easier.

I try to avoid absolutes and I definitely can't say "never" but I will say "rarely". If I'm the only one there or expect to be at the end of the dive then I will usually put a line in, but if there is a lot of teaching going on and/or a rats nest of lines in there already then it is highly unlikely in caves like JB, P1, and Ginnie.

 

[LiteHedded]

Nah

 

[macado]

Well..I answered sometimes but in reality I very rarely ever run primary reel in Ginnie. The gold line was moved closer to the entrance for a reason. Some will argue the cave was being damaged by too many poorly run primaries. At any given day in Ginnie look at all the teams/divers in the water; Most do not run a primary. I'm not saying it's right or wrong but it's become somewhat of an accepted practice especially where the gold line is located now.

If I am with newer or inexperienced cave divers then I might run a reel for their sake if they feel more comfortable or see if they want to run one for practice. I've done dives with friends who are fresh out of Cave 1 / Intro to Cave and I feel it's maybe prudent to set a good example. That doesn't mean that I think "full cave" automatically qualifies someone to arbitrary break rules.

When there are lot of classes going on at Ginnie you can sometimes have too many primary reels run in the eye. If you add on the top of this that sometimes they can be really poorly run. Dont even get me started on people tying their primary off to the middle of the log in the ear. :-(

In my humble opinion if there are already ~4-5 primaries run through the eye then you need to start getting "creative" and running another one could actually be more of a hindrance and danger. I've watched plenty of people get hung or caught up on a poorly run primary; It's sometimes quite entertaining on deco

Now I am sure some blowhard is going to tell me that i'm wrong and that they ALWAYS run a primary. Good for them. Do what makes you comfortable.

Another factor is a lot of divers like to go in the ear and out the eye. The ear drops you a tad further in the system for those people who want to save like 100psi of gas. Personally I think the ear is easier when you have scooters + multiple stages. Exiting the eye, there are much better ledges for deco. I hate decoing in the ear on the log and I can't honestly remember the last time I willingly did it.

 

[PEDiver]

No, just generally not necessary. There are also usually classes going on at Ginnie, and it can quickly lead to a "too many cooks in the kitchen" scenario.

 

[kensuf]

As one of the three people that moved the gold line in the Eye to the current location (the other two being the other Ken and Lauren), I will tell you that my primary motivation was to avoid a freediver getting entangled in a spiders web of poorly run lines. During the time we moved it, there were a number of people freediving into the cavern zone because they saw others doing it on youtube.

It seems that the freediver problem has corrected itself, but that's how we got here.