Do you let others use your equipment? Liability?

[KeithG]

In a similar vein, I would like to ask: Is "your save a dive kit" also "my save a dive kit"? (is this question interesting enough to have its own thread?).

On a our last liveaboard trip one of the divers had an issue with the "safety strap" on their dive light. The thin string connection point to the light had failed. They McGyver'd something for the first night dive, but were unhappy with it (perceived as too weak) and then asked around if anyone had something that would be a better solution.

I had a spare mini-key ring that would should work. So I offered it up. The other diver observed it was perfect, but then said it would be "hard to unclip it at the end of the week". No problem, it is all yours. They said thank you very much.

SO: how often do you give trinkets away?


P.S. I thought I also had a few large key rings on my BCD which I looked for first, but apparently I have already given them away.

 

[scubafanatic]

In a similar vein, I would like to ask: Is "your save a dive kit" also "my save a dive kit"? (is this question interesting enough to have its own thread?).

On a our last liveaboard trip one of the divers had an issue with the "safety strap" on their dive light. The thin string connection point to the light had failed. They McGyver'd something for the first night dive, but were unhappy with it (perceived as too weak) and then asked around if anyone had something that would be a better solution.

I had a spare mini-key ring that would should work. So I offered it up. The other diver observed it was perfect, but then said it would be "hard to unclip it at the end of the week". No problem, it is all yours. They said thank you very much.

SO: how often do you give trinkets away?


P.S. I thought I also had a few large key rings on my BCD which I looked for first, but apparently I have already given them away.

I have a substantial save-a-dive kit, with 'expendable' and 'non-expendable' bits. Over the years I've given away a few minor items = expendable (generic mouthpieces/zip ties/batteries/assorted O-rings/mask defog) The item that I seem to, most often, either give away or consume for myself tends to be O-rings, mainly yoke valve tank O-rings.

I'll lend non-critical things to other divers (historically the most common items have been hand held lights and spare mask), I tend to lend 'critical' things (like reg sets) to folks I feel I can trust (close dive buddy). I did, many years ago, agree to provide HP steel tanks for some folks on a SPREE/Flower Gardens trip, had them each sign a basic waiver on liability as well. My family disagreed with my decision to provide others my tanks (liability concerns) and encouraged me to do the liability waivers at the very least. I doubt I'd ever volunteer any of my gear in that format again, given the potential libility.

 

[kensuf]

So, that is your rational for not asststing anyone who is not paying you?

Holy crap batman. What an amazing leap you have made. I'm not sure how you made that one because that is nowhere near anything close to what I typed.

 

[BDSC]

I typically carry an extra computer with me, a backup mask, and I always have a "save a dive kit" as well. Anything in it you need you can have and don't need to give it back. Last year someone needed to use my extra computer after the first dive when theirs went belly up. Have had someone use my extra mask from time to time. I have no problem lending out my other gear as well if I'm not using it.

If I can help out a fellow diver I will.

 

[AdivingBel]

I've given away mask straps, fin straps, batteries, o-rings, snorkel keepers, etc. over the years. Folks have always given them back or offered to pay for them after the fact. I generally don't except compensation, but if you want to buy me a beer or a marg after the dive...well my altruism does have it's limits . (If you hang around for more than one, odds are I'll return the favor)

 

[Fogest]

I've given away mask straps, fin straps, batteries, o-rings, snorkel keepers, etc. over the years. Folks have always given them back or offered to pay for them after the fact. I generally don't except compensation, but if you want to buy me a beer or a marg after the dive...well my altruism does have it's limits . (If you hang around for more than one, odds are I'll return the favor)

I typically carry an extra computer with me, a backup mask, and I always have a "save a dive kit" as well. Anything in it you need you can have and don't need to give it back. Last year someone needed to use my extra computer after the first dive when theirs went belly up. Have had someone use my extra mask from time to time. I have no problem lending out my other gear as well if I'm not using it.

If I can help out a fellow diver I will.

It is the community of people like you two that have really made me enjoy scuba diving. No matter my age or skill level people are very helpful and welcoming. If something breaks someone is always willing to help. I love that! I am still a student, and managed to get some money together for some used gear, but I don't yet have the funds to get together a nice save-a-dive kit like you two have, or purchase backups of everything. So for now I just hope my things don't break, and if they do that I am around someone as helpful as you guys!

One day I hope that I'll have similar kits and can pass on such a good practice!

 

[bt7csr]

Well I mean the gear they are using should be their responsibility no matter where they got it from. It is similar to buying new gear or used gear. You are responsible for your own safety. Now I mean if you knowingly were giving someone faulty equipment that may be a whole different story. But if to your knowledge you were loaning them a tank that was in normal working order I can't see liability being on you. It would be like letting someone use your car and a tire went flat when they were driving it and they crashed. The car was working to your knowledge just fine prior to that. You wouldn't be held liable.

This auto analogy is incorrect. If you're the vehicle owner, you can be held accountable, even if someone else is driving your car. Vehicle owners are routinely sued after such events. They are also routinely held accountable. That accountability is just typically passed onto the owner's auto insurance company.

One more reason to have auto insurance with high liability limits.

 

[Fogest]

This auto analogy is incorrect. If you're the vehicle owner, you can be held accountable, even if someone else is driving your car. Vehicle owners are routinely sued after such events. They are also routinely held accountable. That accountability is just typically passed onto the owner's auto insurance company.

One more reason to have auto insurance with high liability limits.

That is true, it was a bad example. However that has to do with who is paying the money for something. That works like that because the insurance follows the car, not the person. Equipment is not usually insured though, and this does not have to do with the payment on the equipment if it is damaged. This is about liability. If I lend someone a car and they happen to hit someone I am not the one on the line. Sure my insurance may need to pay for the damages on the car, but I wouldn't be on the hook for anything else. Hell if they are charged they may even be having to foot the car damages and health care payments.

 

[bt7csr]

That is true, it was a bad example. However that has to do with who is paying the money for something. That works like that because the insurance follows the car, not the person. Equipment is not usually insured though, and this does not have to do with the payment on the equipment if it is damaged. This is about liability. If I lend someone a car and they happen to hit someone I am not the one on the line. Sure my insurance may need to pay for the damages on the car, but I wouldn't be on the hook for anything else. Hell if they are charged they may even be having to foot the car damages and health care payments.

If your insurance has liability limits less than damages incurred, you, as the owner, can personally be sued and found liable. The insurance company's liability maxes out, and after a lawsuit, the state can take your real property and garnish wages until the other party is made whole.

I have been in the insurance business for some time, and have started my own insurance company. There may be laws in some states that prevent such things, but I have seen it happen.

I don't want to sidetrack the discussion too much, I'd recommend calling your insurance agent and asking them, you know, before you lend your car to someone else.

 

[2airishuman]

In general I'll loan stuff out, and am part of a dive club where that sort of thing is encouraged.

If I trust someone so little that I need to make them sign a waiver first, I'm not lending them anything.

It's their heirs you have to worry about.

Here's the problem though. Even if you're not remotely negligible, a lawsuit against you could eat up a substantial amount of your time and wealth to defend.

Perhaps. Homeowner's insurance policies have fairly broad general liability coverage. The costs of defense are part of the coverage.