Do you actually see people diving with pony bottles?

[MXGratefulDiver]

... even with training and knowledge if you don't understand why you're doing it you can inadvertently get yourself in trouble ... people do all the time ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Chilly_Diver]

Part of the problem is that you are posting in a pony bottle thread.

I think this is the key right here. Let’s not confuse the purpose of a “pony” with a true stage bottle. One is included in gas planning, the other is not.

 

[northernone]

$$$. Why are there solo courses? What changes when you are by yourself or near another diver? Does your gear act differently? Do the physics of water change? The only thing I do differently when diving solo is not think about where my buddy is. Every other aspect is the same. I check my gear, I descend and look for subjects to photograph/study and when I reach my rock bottom pressure I begin my ascent. I don't stay down until I suddenly run out of air and need a spare bottle of air. Do you carry a gas can around with you in your car or do you watch your fuel gauge?

In my part of the world where running out of fuel can be at best a serious inconvenience and at worse life threatening, I carry spare gas AND watch my fuel gauge. I've had fuel gauges stick or the float shift deceiving me of the level, puncture a fuel line draining the tank fast, and ignition coils die ruining fuel economy.... all these left me glad for spare gas and basic tools to limp back home. I don't use it to extend my driving range, but when I need it, it's there. Other driving environments don't really require this redundancy and I leave my spare gas at home.

Diving with an extra redundant air source has similar attractive qualities for me.

....I don't like doing a CESA as my 3rd line of defense.

When I breathe underwater I prefer the contingency plan:
1. My tank. 2. My other tank. 3 My buddy's tank 4. The surface

-instead of-

1. My tank. 2. My buddy's tank. 3. The surface.

Some of my favorite dives have been just my tank and the surface. So I appreciate those who would rather let their buddy be their back up air source instead of carrying it.

It's an additional level of back up I'm happy to endure the inconvenience of providing myself.

Again, pony tanks are fairly common..
Though semi locally (Saint Lawrence 1,300km south of me) stage bottles are more common compared to a pure pony.

Oh, I've heard using the slightly larger pony as bottom time extender BUT holding a portion as bailout in case of emergency. Sort of a sidemount philosophy of redundancy... rather than spare air.

Regards,
Cameron

 

[Lorenzoid]

If one is driving around in the wilderness, they carry a Jerry can of gasoline and more. Few of us do that kind of driving. The vast majority of us are tooling around on the freeways, with all kinds of options available to us, starting with watching the fuel gauge, and on down to easily phoning for roadside assistance. Reading this thread, you'd get the impression that a whole lot of people are doing extreme dives. How did so many people manage to dive in relative safety all these years without pony tanks? Diving conservatively is one answer. As for gear failures, the gear is pretty darn reliable, and most failures are readily dealt with through procedures taught for decades. Does the apparent increase in interest in ponies stem from more people pushing their bottom times these days or otherwise doing more extreme dives (e.g., near-freezing conditions)? Is it the influence of tech diving?

 

[northernone]

If one is driving around in the wilderness, they carry a Jerry can of gasoline and more. Few of us do that kind of driving. The vast majority of us are tooling around on the freeways, with all kinds of options available to us, starting with watching the fuel gauge, and on down to easily phoning for roadside assistance. Reading this thread, you'd get the impression that a whole lot of people are doing extreme dives. How did so many people manage to dive in relative safety all these years without pony tanks? Diving conservatively is one answer. As for gear failures, the gear is pretty darn reliable, and most failures are readily dealt with through procedures taught for decades. Does the apparent increase in interest in ponies stem from more people pushing their bottom times these days or otherwise doing more extreme dives (e.g., near-freezing conditions)? Is it the influence of tech diving?

Perhaps it's just like the lift kit mudtrucks used to commute to office jobs in the heart of a paved city. Feeling (or looking) like a tech diver or being extra consensus and prepared has it's own appeal outside of sheer practical necessity and pragmatic risk mitigation.

It may be the equipment based compensation for poor buddy skills and situational awareness that appeals to some. Throw gear at a problem. Might be?

....not everyone carrying a pony I meet I'd like to buddy with a loved one, that's for sure.

 

[rek_diver]

I can understand the your boat your rules, but what I don't understand is extra air in one bottle is ok but if you carry it in two bottle the second one is automatically considered 'emergency' air. On your boat I wouldn't need a pony because you carry 150's. That is not common. Usually I would need to sling an 80 because that is normally all that is available at vacation dive sites. In that situation I would breath from the slung 80 (pony) first. This would be a part of my plan and would never cause an issue with backup air for my buddy.

I don't understand why you're trying to change the mind of a stubborn old boat captain who has done the same thing the same way for reasons that to many might seem ridiculous but to him make sense- because there's no way he's EVER going to listen to your rational, logical side of the argument about the many other uses of pony bottles and the additional safety they provide, and say "You know what my rule was stupid I'm sorry I ever thought of it!". You'd be more likely to convince the president of the flat earth society that the earth is a globe. An even better use of your time might be to ask yourself why you care what a stubborn old boat captain thinks of his silly rules since there are certainly other dive boats out there that won't blink an eye at your second time and maybe even give you a pat on the back for giving yourself that extra measure of safety.

 

[Wookie]

I don't understand why you're trying to change the mind of a stubborn old boat captain who has done the same thing the same way for reasons that to many might seem ridiculous but to him make sense- because there's no way he's EVER going to listen to your rational, logical side of the argument about the many other uses of pony bottles and the additional safety they provide, and say "You know what my rule was stupid I'm sorry I ever thought of it!". You'd be more likely to convince the president of the flat earth society that the earth is a globe. An even better use of your time might be to ask yourself why you care what a stubborn old boat captain thinks of his silly rules since there are certainly other dive boats out there that won't blink an eye at your second time and maybe even give you a pat on the back for giving yourself that extra measure of safety.

And every will be happier when you pick that boat over yours.

It isn't about the money.

 

[rek_diver]

Told ya he wouldn't change his mind.

 

[ljpm]

For some reason that I have never figured out pony threads are almost always controversial and often contentious.

To try and answer your question, part of it is semantics. Is it a pony, a stage, a bailout? Is it emergency redundancy or is it to provide extra bottom gas.

Part of the problem is that you are posting in a pony bottle thread. That generally means emergency redundency. In this case the goal is to never use the bottle and if you do it means something went south in your dive. Hence the boat or dive op looking at this negatively. But you are wanting both, emergency redundancy and more bottom gas. There is the rub.

Yes, if the dive op allows and you have access to 80’s, you can do both, just as described upthread. Better yet you could also take sidemount and get. the training and gear to manage it and potential problems correctly. You are essentially diving independent doubles without the training.

The OP simply asked if other divers dove with pony tanks. Again, the semantics come into play. The OP ask divers to comment on OTHER divers gear without them having ascertained if it was a pony or a stage. I think my confusion regarding pony/stage is somewhat validated.

As for sidemount, I plan on getting certified when finances permit. I was told however that there are many vacation dive shops that wont allow sidemount. I guess their view of sidemount is similar to some peoples view of stage tanks.

 

[ljpm]

... it's an oversize beer can ... but I do get your point. Some of my buddies in the Red Sea did the same thing when they wanted to extend their dives on some of the deeper wrecks we were diving ...

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... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Agreed. I would prefer not to sling it seems to be the simplest solution, at least when on vacation.