Do Not Touch

[Crimson Ghost]

self-righteousness? Who are you kidding? The bottom line is that you are not suppose to touch – so don’t promote the behavior. Just because an undeterminable percentage of the population does it doesn’t make it right or acceptable. A percentage of the population also molest children – should we make a list of the children with blackbelt training so the scumbags know who to stay away from ? unreal, simply unreal.

 

[cartecs]

Consequences to touching should not matter.. because.. you shouldn't touch to begin with. If you touch something and get hurt I'm just going to laugh at you, not inform you about what you can and can't touch. If we did that then all the idiots in the world would be grabbing and touching everything they knew they could get away with..

No one is exhibiting "selfrightiousness"; it's just common sense.

 

[desiredbard]

No by all means lets send the blakbelts to those perverts ....
Like I said if you mess with a stonefish, lionfish its your own fault.

Last question was spot on......

I was shocked to find out what could have happened to the fish, ok stupid defence meganism poisoning yourself but the fish cant help that.

And yes Self rightiousness .... if we should be down there we would have had gills !
Totally black and white.... the fact that a dogfish or grouper befriends with a diver is unnatural itself so your mere presence is disturbing. Nevertheless you go, just like me, down every oportunity.

Now wether you touch and till what degree is up to you and is your descission. But in order to make that descision you need the information. which so far has not been answeredby a single person here.

Is this because you simply do not know any consequenses? And are you all hiding your ignorance behind a pointing finger and an I know better attitude?

In that case like in the OP; don't react, dont answer, since its not contributing at all to the clearly stated purpose of this topic.

 

[SubMariner]

Okay, things are getting a little heated in this discussion.

Please take a step away from the keyboard; think BEFORE you type.

Insulting or abusive posts WILL BE EDITED OR DELETED!

Just a little warning from one of your Friendly Neighbourhood Moderators.

 

[desiredbard]

Consequences to touching should not matter.. because.. you shouldn't touch to begin with. If you touch something and get hurt I'm just going to laugh at you, not inform you about what you can and can't touch. If we did that then all the idiots in the world would be grabbing and touching everything they knew they could get away with..

No one is exhibiting "selfrightiousness"; it's just common sense.

reading difficult for divers? or something like that?

If you want to tickle a triggerfish be my guest, it will show you who's boss, and the trigger wont get hurt unless a piece of diver gets stuck in its throat

You dont get hurt by a puffed puffer, the puffer does it to himself by puffing
(we should not get them started so!)
thats what this topic was started for

Dont do it and tell anyone off that does it even the initiating DM's or guides....
Now once again in the hope that it sinks in : any more examples like the puffer

 

[Mrs.Prages]

reading difficult for divers? or something like that?

If you want to tickle a triggerfish be my guest, it will show you who's boss, and the trigger wont get hurt unless a piece of diver gets stuck in its throat

You dont get hurt by a puffed puffer, the puffer does it to himself by puffing
(we should not get them started so!)
thats what this topic was started for

Dont do it and tell anyone off that does it even the initiating DM's or guides....
Now once again in the hope that it sinks in : any more examples like the puffer

(then again "we do not have WOMD's" never did)

I am confused on what you are asking for, your first list was of dangerous creatures that have consequences for the silly humans who come along and play with them. Now you say - "If you want to tickle a triggerfish be my guest, it will show you who's boss, and the trigger wont get hurt unless a piece of diver gets stuck in its throat...any more examples like the puffer?"

You are moving around a lot on what you are saying.

I think too that the tone that you took when you first started with the thread by saying "no lectures" and some of the other aggressivelly toned comments might get posters a little riled up.

You might try toning down and stepping back a little, and you may get some actual constructive advice.

Although as it stands, I am just going to pull out my popcorn and watch the happenings.

 

[MarkUK]

I don't have a 'holy than thou' attitude, I just choose not to touch stuff when I dive, whether it is for fun or just to get a decent photograph. My own rule is, if I can't get into position to get a good shot without touching the coral or the thing I am trying to photograph, then I will leave it – the same animal will turn up some other time, and I am not prepared to damage/risk damaging coral/marine life just for a shot. I do this for a living, so I need to get good shots, but I still won't put my needs before the marine life.

Create a list by all means if you think it will be useful, but I can see all that will happen is people will look at the list, think 'oh, that might hurt me, or I will hurt it' and then decide they can touch anything that isn't on the list.

As you said, you are either a toucher or you're not. You are. I'm not. I am not going to agree with what you do, and you obviously aren't going to agree with me, so let's leave it at that.

Mark

 

[Airborne!]

Here is how I see it. Interacting with any creature in the wild can be dangerous to you or the creature.
First danger is your going to interact with something that does direct harm to you. That is easy enough to understand.
Second danger is your going to interact with something that does direct harm to the creature. You touch Coral and it dies.
Third danger is your going to interact with something that does indirect harm to the creature or a fellow diver. You feed or pet a cute little creature of your choice. Sometime later that little creature comes out of his hole and “attacks” another diver wanting food or attention. Or that cute little fish later gets impaled with a big knife by an anxious diver who mistook the “affection” for an attack.
Stuff like this happens with bears and other land animals all the time. Creatures in the water are no different. Don’t touch anything because your actions can carry long-term consequences that you cannot foresee.
I just think people see a list or book of what you can touch as being bad because here we are telling newbie divers not to touch anything, but here is a book of what you can touch. Just smacks of when I hear or see a Diver do something dangerous in front of newbie divers and saying, “well of course its dangerous, but since I’m a true professional I can handle this kind of thing.”

 

[downdeep]

I think if you're looking for some sort of assistance in compiling a list that in any way promotes disturbing marine life, then you've come to the wrong board. Most of the participants here feel a great responsibility toward protecting the underwater environment.

It's kinda like being invited to someone's house for dinner and then spanking their kids.

 

[drbill]

I think you have your figures all wrong. I think it is the minority of divers who feel it is okay to go down and molest marine life, moving stuff into better positions for photos, etc.

Although I don't think it is a good idea in general to touch marine life, as a videographer and educator I am one who will touch and move certain species to get a better shot, or even use contact to elicit certain behaviors in certain species so I can film them. If I encounter a rare or unidentified species, I will try to position it in a way that allows me to capture the key features that might help more knowledgeable scientists to ID it.

I am almost always selective in what species I will touch. These are ones that I know will not be significantly impaired by my touch. Ones I am unsure of, I almost always leave alone.

I faced this issue recently with a sea cucumber I've seen 7 times but hadn't yet identified. I repositioned several of the individuals to get good footage of what might be diagnostic features. In repositioning one, it started to eviscerate (expel material from its anus). My touch was gentle so I was quite surprised.

I inspected the eviscerate and quickly realized it was not the digestive tract as some sea cucumbers will expel. I induced a few of the others I encountered on that dive to eviscerate so I could get good film to use in my educational videos.

Was it proper to do so? Possibly not. I made the decision to go ahead this time for scientific and educational reasons. Will I do it again with this species? No, I have sufficient footage to ID it and present evisceration as a defense mechanism. No need to do it again.

I have frequently railed about those divers who kill sea urchins so they can feed the fish (especially when they do so in our dive park which we try to treat as a protected area until it officially receives that designation by the State). Sea urchins are not a problem in most parts of Catalina so there is no ecosystem health issue to "justify" killing them to attract fish. Knocking two stones together often accomplishes the same goal without hurting anything (except, perhaps, the encrusters on the two stones!).